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How Other People Worship
- Thread starter rlvaughn
- Start date
Liturgy in Baptist circles tends to mean a Anglican / RCC style.
About as close to “liturgy” a Baptist might come is the responsive reading found in the back of Baptist hymnals, and perhaps on an occasion the public reading by the congregation of the Scriptures.
These were “killed” by the rejection of the hymnal in favor of the overhead, the hymnal (imo) replaced the popularity of the “book of prayer”.
The Bible reading was “killed” by no one having a common Bible. Were before the KJV or even NKJV were the main use, now the KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, and whatever is the popular appeal prevents corporate reading. Of course, one could always “project” the version to be read, but then why carry a Bible to church?
In China, the persecuted church is cutting the pages out of the Bible. Each member gets single page (front and back) to commit to memory and then destroy. When they assemble, each member quotes their page as they hear the Bible quoted.
How very sad it makes me when I realize that the abundance and tools I have been given I will be required to give an account. God have mercy, for I am a very poor servant much less steward!
About as close to “liturgy” a Baptist might come is the responsive reading found in the back of Baptist hymnals, and perhaps on an occasion the public reading by the congregation of the Scriptures.
These were “killed” by the rejection of the hymnal in favor of the overhead, the hymnal (imo) replaced the popularity of the “book of prayer”.
The Bible reading was “killed” by no one having a common Bible. Were before the KJV or even NKJV were the main use, now the KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, and whatever is the popular appeal prevents corporate reading. Of course, one could always “project” the version to be read, but then why carry a Bible to church?
In China, the persecuted church is cutting the pages out of the Bible. Each member gets single page (front and back) to commit to memory and then destroy. When they assemble, each member quotes their page as they hear the Bible quoted.
How very sad it makes me when I realize that the abundance and tools I have been given I will be required to give an account. God have mercy, for I am a very poor servant much less steward!
Aigner is a United Methodist, so his liturgy probably resembles something like Anglican.
Sometimes I hesitate to quote/link Aigner because of some differences I have with him, but here I agree with his main point that worship isn't just a matter of human preference.
Sounds like the mod church of baby choruses with little or no theological significance and a relaxed dress code so one can get on with the big weekend right away. And let's eat out and go shopping so that retail employees can't get off for church. A day of rest would be bad for the heathen and us too. And all of our problems are not our fault but problems with the system just like the commies say.
Nah, he's left the UMC for a PC(USA) church, and appears to pondering yoking up with The Episcopal Church:
About Jonathan - Ponder Anew
"I grew up Southern Baptist, thought for a while that I might be United Methodist, currently think I’m an Episcopalian, and serve a wonderful Presbyterian Church."
The Woodlands Community Presbyterian Church PC(USA) • Our Staff
Consider the liturgy or order-of-worship (they are the same exact thing) from a Reformed Baptist Church I was a member of:
Greeting
Hymn #1
Hymn #2
Call to Worship (reading from the Psalms)
Hymn #3
Pastoral Prayer
Reading and Commentary
Prayer of Confession and Thanksgiving for Pardon
Offering
Lord's Supper
Sermon
Song of Response (Note: the song of response was not an altar call)
Is this liturgy unbiblical? It emphasizes reading the word, singing the word, declaring the word, and prayer. We also celebrated the Lord's Supper weekly. The only thing we should be concerned about when it comes to worship is whether what we are doing is biblical.
Would that much was geared toward memorizing Scripture, quoting Scriptures, rather than singing so much.
But that is pure opinion.
There is no shortage of that on the BB!
I believe at its simplest "liturgy" just means "a form of public worship" -- which we more likely call an order of service in most Baptist churches. It has no presence in the language of the churches with which I have been associated during my lifetime.
You will see the term used more in Reformed or Particular Baptist churches, especially those churches that subscribe to the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith. But you are right, order-of-worship and liturgy are the same things.
For comparative reasons, here is how the 17-century Particular Baptists viewed worship (taken from the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith):
Chapter 22: Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
1._____ The light of nature shews that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is just, good and doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart and all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God, is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures.
( Jeremiah 10:7; Mark 12:33; Deuteronomy 12:32; Exodus 20:4-6 )
2._____ Religious worship is to be given to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and to him alone; not to angels, saints, or any other creatures; and since the fall, not without a mediator, nor in the mediation of any other but Christ alone.
( Matthew 4:9, 10; John 6:23; Matthew 28:19; Romans 1:25; Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5 )
3._____ Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one part of natural worship, is by God required of all men. But that it may be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of the Spirit, according to his will; with understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and when with others, in a known tongue.
( Psalms 95:1-7; Psalms 65:2; John 14:13, 14; Romans 8:26; 1 John 5:14; 1 Corinthians 14:16, 17 )
4._____ Prayer is to be made for things lawful, and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for the dead, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.
( 1 Timothy 2:1, 2; 2 Samuel 7:29; 2 Samuel 12:21-23; 1 John 5:16 )
5._____ The reading of the Scriptures, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord; as also the administration of baptism, and the Lord's supper, are all parts of religious worship of God, to be performed in obedience to him, with understanding, faith, reverence, and godly fear; moreover, solemn humiliation, with fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions, ought to be used in an holy and religious manner.
( 1 Timothy 4:13; 2 Timothy 4:2; Luke 8:18; Colossians 3:16; Ephesians 5:19; Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Esther 4:16; Joel 2:12; Exodus 15:1-19, Psalms 107 )
6._____ Neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship, is now under the gospel, tied unto, or made more acceptable by any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed; but God is to be worshipped everywhere in spirit and in truth; as in private families daily, and in secret each one by himself; so more solemnly in the public assemblies, which are not carelessly nor wilfully to be neglected or forsaken, when God by his word or providence calleth thereunto.
( John 4:21; Malachi 1:11; 1 Timothy 2:8; Acts 10:2; Matthew 6:11; Psalms 55:17; Matthew 6:6; Hebrews 10:25; Acts 2:42 )
7._____ As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.
( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )
Chapter 22: Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
1._____ The light of nature shews that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is just, good and doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart and all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God, is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures.
( Jeremiah 10:7; Mark 12:33; Deuteronomy 12:32; Exodus 20:4-6 )
2._____ Religious worship is to be given to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and to him alone; not to angels, saints, or any other creatures; and since the fall, not without a mediator, nor in the mediation of any other but Christ alone.
( Matthew 4:9, 10; John 6:23; Matthew 28:19; Romans 1:25; Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5 )
3._____ Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one part of natural worship, is by God required of all men. But that it may be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of the Spirit, according to his will; with understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and when with others, in a known tongue.
( Psalms 95:1-7; Psalms 65:2; John 14:13, 14; Romans 8:26; 1 John 5:14; 1 Corinthians 14:16, 17 )
4._____ Prayer is to be made for things lawful, and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for the dead, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.
( 1 Timothy 2:1, 2; 2 Samuel 7:29; 2 Samuel 12:21-23; 1 John 5:16 )
5._____ The reading of the Scriptures, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord; as also the administration of baptism, and the Lord's supper, are all parts of religious worship of God, to be performed in obedience to him, with understanding, faith, reverence, and godly fear; moreover, solemn humiliation, with fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions, ought to be used in an holy and religious manner.
( 1 Timothy 4:13; 2 Timothy 4:2; Luke 8:18; Colossians 3:16; Ephesians 5:19; Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Esther 4:16; Joel 2:12; Exodus 15:1-19, Psalms 107 )
6._____ Neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship, is now under the gospel, tied unto, or made more acceptable by any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed; but God is to be worshipped everywhere in spirit and in truth; as in private families daily, and in secret each one by himself; so more solemnly in the public assemblies, which are not carelessly nor wilfully to be neglected or forsaken, when God by his word or providence calleth thereunto.
( John 4:21; Malachi 1:11; 1 Timothy 2:8; Acts 10:2; Matthew 6:11; Psalms 55:17; Matthew 6:6; Hebrews 10:25; Acts 2:42 )
7._____ As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.
( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )
And yet, the term is not used in the 1689 Confession, is it? I don't remember reading it there.
You are correct. In some"1689" churches there is a strong affinity to the Puritans. This is not an across-the-board thing but it has its presence. There are also some churches that use the word sacrament instead of ordinance. The words liturgy and sacrament are not wrong in and of themselves. It is the attachments the words have to Roman Catholicism that make them controversial. Indeed, the framers of the 1689 LBC used the word "ordinance" on purpose. It makes sense given they considered the papacy to be the spirit of antichrist.
Today in church one of the teenage girls (16 or 17) had a lot of people distracted from worship. She was with her mother and father. Her father is a deacon. She had on a pair of shorts that would have fit perfectly in the music video "put them put them Daisy Dukes on." Tight, cut off so short you could see where her leg ended and butt cheek began.
Routine is not liturgy.
Do you think that going to church should interfere with eating out, going shopping, and generally enjoying a big weekend?
In every other instance he seems like a very Godly man. This was totally put of character for his family. Shocking really.
There is that priority that some have.
Just so the casual reader it is true and certain that a faithful servant of the Lord must bring honor to God by the complete devotion of our whole heart, mind, soul, strength, in all our ways acknowledging Him, or there is a problem in submission to the Master.
The deacons and elders (pastors) of the assembly are to emulate such before all, in all places, at all times.