Featured Synergistic teaching of the Bible.

I inferred nothing. It was explicitly stated ...

[Eph 2:1-10 NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Is being dead in trespasses and sins a "good work", because if it is not then EPH 2:1-10 starts out with us doing "not good" works, then God does something in the middle, and it ends with us doing "good works". I infer nothing except that God meant what he said in Ephesians 2.

What about these words are open to a broad interpretation?

[Rom 3:9-18 NASB] 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; 11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; 12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." 13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; 14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; 15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, 16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, 17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." 18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

Paul also addressed your suggestion that God calls us to righteousness through a human choice to obey the Law immediately after these verses:

[Rom 3:19-20 NASB] 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law [comes] the knowledge of sin.

 

What is not in question is that God saves. What is in question is whom He chooses to save and how that selection is made. Synergists hold that man's and God's choices play a role, while monergists hold that God and God alone decides (on an individual basis) which people will be saved.

Being dead doesn't mean we are unable to make the choice for salvation. That is an assumption, and an incorrect one. You have inferred a sequence which puts regeneration before faith. However, I showed you a passage that explicitly says belief in the gospel comes prior to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (two passages, in fact).

The passage you are quoting does not say explicitly at which point in the process faith comes into the picture. It says that the gift of grace is not of ourselves (we don't give ourselves the gift of grace), and that faith is how we aquire the gift... however... it does not address where in the sequence faith comes in (if it is prior to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or not). This matters because if faith is prior to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then the process is Synergistic, whereas if faith comes after the indwelling of the Holy Spirit it is monergistic as it would be God within us having faith in Himself, and wouldn't be a deliberate act of the human will.

What about Jesus? Was He not righteous? Abraham; was he not credited with righteousness? Does this passage exclude the possibility that Jesus was righteous? Do these verses exclude the possibility that Abraham was credited with Christ's righteousness? Obviously, you will answer yes, Jesus was righteous, so your thinking probably isn't as rigid on this as you might have thought.

You assume that because none are righteous, we have no capability of understanding good. However, this is not the case.

[Gen 3:22 NASB] 22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--​

We absolutely have the ability to know good, to understand good, and to distinguish it from evil. We absolutely have the ability to choose between good and evil. Our problem is that our nature is to DO evil in spite of our choices. This doesn't end when we get saved and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, BTW. Paul wrote,

[Rom 7:18-19 NASB] 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good [is] not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.​

Our mind, will, and emotions -- the faculties that CHOOSE things -- are in our soul, not in our flesh. So when Paul says in Romans 3 that there is none righteous, no not one -- is he referring to the flesh, the soul, or the spirit? These are now separated from one another.

[Heb 4:12 NASB] 12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.​

I'm not suggesting that anyone needs to follow the The Law to be saved... what I'm suggesting is that Deuteronomy 30, while written in The Law, is testifying regarding the covenant of Faith rather than The Law. Not that it is a command we are required to follow, but that it teaches us about the covenant of faith.

That's why Paul draws a distinction between what is written in The Law of Moses and what Deuteronomy 30 says about 'the righteousness that comes through faith.'

[Luk 24:44 NASB] 44 Now [Jesus] said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."​

Jesus Himself says the Law of Moses talks about Him. I suggest we take Him at His word and listen to the Law when it talks about faith and Christ.

[Gal 3:24 NASB] 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor [to lead us] to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.​

So if we use The Law in the way Paul does, and the way Paul suggests here in Gal 3:24, and the way Jesus talks about in Luke 24:44, and the way I'm doing it... we can see that Deuteronomy 30 is teaching us about faith and Christ.

If you use the online Bible - Blueletterbible.org ... and use the NASB version... you will notice that the NASB CAPTIALIZES any new testament scriptures that quote the Old Testament. Half of Paul's epistles are capitalized!! No one writes more about faith and how it works than Paul. He gets all of his doctrine and theology regarding faith from the Torah and the Prophets. We should too. Not that we desire to be under the law, but that the law is a series of parables that teach us about Christ and faith.

 

This is an assumption on YOUR part.
John Wesley (hardly a Calvinist) would disagree with you.

Where does it say that God cannot give faith until we are INDWELT with the Holy Spirit?
I do not believe that anyone in the Old Testament was Indwelt with the Holy Spirit, it describes them as being "annotated" with the Spirit. You have pre-defined the terms to require synergysm and then claim that scripture proves synergysm. All you have proven is that "begging the question" still works as an debate tactic.

[Romans 8:28-30 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

[Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

Not an assumption... it is my own summary of the points monergists have been arguing here for some time.

I've never read John Wesley... I stay away from extra Biblical sources as much as possible. The Holy Spirit is a much better teacher than John Wesley, and if I'm arguing a point, I'd rather argue with my arguments directly from scripture than argue another man's arguments about the scripture.

I don't believe the Bible says this. We can (and must) have faith (mere belief) in the gospel of Jesus Christ on our own prior to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Many misquote Ephesians 2:8-9 to say that faith is a gift that is not of ourselves... but faith is the means to the gift of grace... grace is the gift that is not of ourselves in that passage, not faith.

[Exo 31:3 NASB] 3 "I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all [kinds of] craftsmanship,

There are instances, yet I would submit to you that none of them are talking about salvation.

How do you mean? In the wikipedia definition of synergism I posted at the beginning of my first post?

[Mat 22:14 NASB] 14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."​

Maybe a parable will help you understand my position.
A father is making breakfast for his children. He says to them, "would you like pancakes or waffles for breakfast? Before you decide, let me just say, the waffles are amazing... you should pick those." Some of his children choose waffles, some choose pancakes.

In this story, was the father sovereign over breakfast? Yes. Did the children have a role to play? Yes. Was it synergistic? Yes. Did the children make breakfast? No. Did the children provide breakfast for themselves by choosing waffles? No. Did the children manipulate the father by their choice? No. Could the children choose steak and eggs? No... that wasn't one of their choices.

Similarly, God gives us a choice... life or death... the blessing or the curse. The way we choose is by choosing to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Some choose to believe... some choose not to believe. The ones who choose to believe get eternal life. Did they provide the grace for themselves because they chose to believe? No. Did they save themselves through their own power? No. Just like the father still cooks the breakfast, the grace for salvation is still provided by the Father. Just because he gives man a binary choice doesn't' mean He's not sovereign over salvation. Just because man has a synergistic role to play in their salvation by choosing whether or not to believe, does not mean that they are controlling God. We cannot, for example, choose not to believe and still be saved. So I don't hold to a completely free will... but rather I believe God gives everyone a distinct, binary choice whether or not to believe the gospel.

[Deu 30:19 NASB] 19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

 

1. Faith is more than "mere belief" in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Demons believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is true with more certainty than most sinners.

2. Everything in the "Golden Chain" of Romans 8 is a work of God, as is the act of saving described in Ephesians 2. There is no indication that WE must do anything or God is rendered impotent to continue to carry out His will. God chose. God called. God drew. God gave the gift of Grace and Faith that enables Salvation. God pierced the heart. God made the propitiation. God baptizes with the Holy Spirit. God sanctifies. God glorifies. God does all of this to display His Glory.

 

Demons believe God exists, but they deny the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[1Jo 4:1-3 NASB] 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the [spirit] of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.​

I don't see the phrase "golden chain" in Romans 8. I do see synergistic indications there though:

[Rom 8:16 NASB] 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,​

This echos Deuteronomy 30:

[Deu 30:19 NASB] 19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,​

To "testify" literally means to bare witness. So we have The Spirit (heaven) and our spirit (earth) testifying (baring witness) that we are children of God. Synergism. As Deuteronomy 30 says regarding faith -- it is not too difficult for us, and the choice is not made by God in heaven.

 

If you honestly believe that the demons are unaware of the truth that Jesus is God, that He died and was resurrected and that “His sheep” are under His protection and safe in God’s hands, then there really is nothing more to discuss.

I leave you in God’s hands (which are far more capable than mine) and I have nothing more to learn from you.

 

No, I don’t think they are unaware. They deny it. They attempt to refute it & intentionally suppress the truth with what they know to be a lie.

 

You’re right, that’s a better, clearer way of stating it.

I was thinking of it in the way Peter denied Christ. He never stopped believing, but he was denying as a deception in a selfish attempt to save himself from harm.