Featured True Saving Faith = Believe, Repent, Obey

I disagree.

Yes, true belief is always in the present-tense, as I see it.
But it is not an imperative, it is a declarative.

There is nothing in John 3:16 that commands someone to believe.
It is declaring that those who believe, should have something.

As faith is a necessary evidence ( Hebrews 11:1 ) that accompanies God's gift of eternal life and a person's being born again from above, so is true belief a gift ( Philippians 1:29 ).
In the Greek, the word is "pisteuon", and is present tense active, rendered into the Late Middle English of the AV as, "believeth"...a constant thing.

" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16 )

In John 3:16, I see these important distinctives:

1) Whosoever believes ( Present-tense, continues ) in Him, God sent His Son so that they should not perish.
2) Whosoever believes ( Present-tense, continues ) in Him, God sent His Son so that they should have eternal life...not "may have".

To me, there is no modicum of "chance" in the entire equation, and there is a big difference between "should / shall" and "may / might".
God did something, so that everyone who believes, should two things...not perish, and have eternal life.

If man does something, there is a 50/50 chance that it will fail.
If God does something, there is no "in-between".
His work never fails.

That is why I am so glad that my gift of eternal life does not rest in my own futile efforts.
If it depended upon any part of me or my efforts, it would fail.

 

From my perspective, repentance is not the same as belief...

It accompanies true belief.
Please see Acts of the Apostles 2:37-40, where they asked Peter what they should do ( after believing ), and he replied, "repent and be baptized".

Since, according to Scripture ( Romans 1:18-32, John 3:19-20 ) man will not repent, then it has to be granted to men to do so ( Acts of the Apostles 5:31, Acts of the Apostles 11:18 ).
Therefore, repentance is not a condition, but a necessary evidence, just as faith is ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

In 1 John 1:9, the "if" establishes a contrast..."if" the believer confesses their sins, then He is faithful and just to forgive those sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousness.
If they do not, then they are not saved and they were never forgiven of their trespasses ( Colossians 2:13-14 ).

1 John is speaking to both believers and unbelievers.
Context is established in 1 John 1:8.

" If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. <---- Unbelievers established.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. <---- Believers established
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." ( 1 John 1:8-10 ) <----- Again, unbelievers established.

8) IF we ( professing believers ) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Therefore, anyone who professes Christ, yet says that they have not sinned or they say that they do not sin, is deceived and the truth is not in them.

9) If we ( professing believers ) confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
In other words, if a person does these things, it is, once again, proof that not only is a person already forgiven, but cleansed from ALL unrighteousness ( Colossians 2:13-14 )...not just what they committed in the moment.

10) If we ( professing believers ) say that we have not sinned, we make Christ a liar, and the truth is not in us.


For a person to be saved, the truth must be in them.
If a person is not, then that truth is not in them and never was.

 

Disobedience over the life of a professing believer, does indeed show that they have not truly believed.

No Spirit = No change at the heart level = no genuine desire to repent and obey.
However, Once Born-again, Always Born-again.

To me, God's word addresses the reader and is speaking to a mixed crowd..."wheat" and "tares" ( See Matthew 13 ).
The "if" statements are targeting all who read the Scriptures and assuring them that "if" they hear His voice, "if" they hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast until the end, "if" they continue in His word, etc, then ( and only then ) are they truly Christ's sheep...which He will lose none of ( John 6:39 ).

Three points I'd like to make:

Those who love the Lord obey Him...Those that do not, don't.

Being a slave of righteousness does not lead to eternal life...it is the evidence of one having had the gift of eternal life bestowed upon them from on High.

"The Shepherd of Hermas" as being non-Scripture, has absolutely no authority for the lives of believers.



In addition,
Irenaeus taught what would later become "The Magisterium"...the equal authority of Scripture, Tradition and the teachings of the Apostolic Succession (which would become represented in the Popes ). He is regarded as a "saint" in both the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. I personally do not believe that he was saved.

Clement of Alexandria was a philosopher that supposedly converted to Christianity and taught at the Catechetical School in Alexandria, Egypt. I also think he was not saved.

Origen was a student of Clement, and studied both the Bible and the contemporary philosophy of his time. He was one of the "forefathers" of textual criticism, as well as perhaps the first major commentator of the Scriptures. He also believed that Jesus had a human soul, going beyond the statements of Scripture and hypothesizing that Christ's deity "fused" with his humanity, "mingling" God and man. He went beyond Scripture in other places, demonstrating that, to me, he also was not saved.

Quoting "The Shepherd of Hermas" as Scripture was but one of many errors that the "early church fathers" would go on the make.
To me, they were heretics that should never have been listened to.


The only "church father" that I think was even remotely close to being saved, was Polycarp.
As I see it, all the rest are suspect, for reasons I will not get into at this time.

 

Are you sure Jesus' gospel wasn't HEAR YE HEAR YE God loves some of you and hates the rest. If your lucky he picked you. Smokem if you gottem buckle up and wait and see if he picks you.

 

Says who?

With respect, I have the right to decide the correct understanding of His words just as much as you do.

We're back to 50/50.
It's either successful, or it isn't.

I'm not aware that anything is up to man's will.

In fact, being born again is by God's will, not man's will ( John 1:13, James 1:18 ).

 

Given the chance, man would only ever do the wrong thing.
Mankind is not capable of leveraging ourselves out of wallowing in the mire unless God miraculously changes our hearts.

To weed out the "tares", as well as to show His children what He made them of.

Trials and tribulations cause false believers, sown in the "field" of Christ's "wheat", to show their true colors...they all will fall away at some point.
They cause true believers to see the reality of their God-given gifts of faith, belief and perseverance, and to experience the truth of His word's promise that He is their Deliverer.
God's children will never fall away ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).

Again, what you see as "conditional", I see as "evidential".

God's word is addressing believers...
The "if" statements are there to prompt people to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith, and to assure them.
"IF" they are seeing the evidence, "THEN" they are saved..."ELSE" they are not saved.

True and false brethren are a biblical reality.
Not everyone who professes Christ is actually indwelt with His Spirit.

As for me, I once saw things that way, but the more I read, the more I realized I had the cart before the horse.

I now know that obedience to God is a result of Him having saved me and making me a new creature in Christ...
I did not "warrant" His favor by my actions.

He acted, and I re-acted.

 

Given the chance, man would only ever do the wrong thing.
Mankind is not capable of leveraging ourselves out of wallowing in the mire unless God miraculously changes our hearts.

To weed out the "tares", as well as to show His children what He made them of.

Trials and tribulations cause false believers, sown in the "field" of Christ's "wheat", to show their true colors...they all will fall away at some point.
They cause true believers to see the reality of their God-given gifts of faith, belief and perseverance, and to experience the truth of His word's promise that He is their Deliverer.
God's children will never fall away ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).

Again, what you see as "conditional", I see as "evidential".

God's word is addressing all professing believers...whether or not they truly possess Him.
The "if" statements are there to prompt people to examine themselves, to see if they are in the faith.

As for me, I once saw things that way, but the more I read, the more I realized I had the cart before the horse.

I now know that obedience to God is a result of Him having saved me and making me a new creature in Christ...
I did not "warrant" His favor by my actions.

He acted, and I re-acted.

 

I am.

I can also attest that it isn't, "God loves the entire world and sits on His throne, powerless to save someone without their express permission.", or that our obedience to His commands gains us some sort of favor with Him.
Of that I am sure.

Under man's system, we create our own "luck" by taking control of our destinies.
Appealing, isn't it?

"Heaven or Hell, you decide".
To me, that's quite attractive, from a sales standpoint.

Who's not going to go for a deal like that?
Tens of thousands went for it during the "crusades" during the '50's into the '90's....and thousands are still doing it every year.

You act as if mankind is waiting in line to be reconciled to God, but we're not waiting.
Instead, our entire outlook on sin and sinning is "party like it's 1999".

Apart from God, men couldn't care less if their sins offend Him...
We enjoy them, and would never give them up ( Romans 1:18-32 ).

Mankind, if we even cared, wouldn't be in the position that we are in.

We don't care about sin, unless we're afraid of the consequences.
Remove the consequences, we go right back to wallowing in sin.
That is what we will do, if God does not change our hearts.

Good old "human nature"...we're like dogs and pigs, who love what we're stuck in.

 

Lets make a deal, If your right and I end up in hell you can tell God the joke about this guy who thought God was TOO good, TOO kind, TOO loving and TOO great to fail the universe and everyone in it.

But if I'm right your going to have to join our bus ride for ice cream in heaven even take the first bite before I do.


I'm not worried at all. I caught a glance of Jesus Christ and I knew right there He had everything covered.


"You act as if mankind is waiting in line to be reconciled to God"
Try acting like you are the only one on earth and God is the only one in heaven. Your life is merely the first syllable to what he is telling you.




"
"Heaven or Hell, you decide".
To me, that's quite attractive, from a sales standpoint."

A Selfless person tends to see thing differently from a Selfish person.

Hell could be getting everything I want and watching you or any soul suffer eternally.

Whereas heaven would be knowing everyone I care about, everyone, is ok especially those who appeared as enemies and didn't like me.

When you pick up the love of God you consider all as your own children and are way far along from the spiritual playground of who can beat who up.

There is no fear here.

 

No I do not.
What I think you have yet to see, is that I believe that man's will is in lock step with our sin nature...once released from that bondage by the new birth, our wills then become free to do what God wants.

We as believers go from having the freedom TO sin, to having the freedom FROM sin.
To me, you continue to think that man's will plays the operative part in gaining and keeping what God's word calls a gift...not a reward.

The indwelling Spirit will not allow unrepentant sin, neither will our new natures.

Have you ever heard the term, "sin sick"?

It's what happens when a believer partakes in worldliness and becomes so sick of it, they literally feel ill.
They also become horrified at how they have treated their precious Saviour and their best Friend, and their consciences can get "shipwrecked"...only time, obedience and God's patience and love can ever re-float it.

The Lord used him to explain it to me.

God used him to write much more than just Romans 6.

Romans 7, 8, 9, 10...etc.

In fact, there's quite a bit to say in Romans 7 about the new nature and the old, and the internal war that goes on with true believers.
Fighting sin, and losing the battle...until the Spirit steps in.

 

Are we saved by our own actions, or by those of Chrsit Himself?

 

We don't act to get saved, we act because we are!... Brother Glen

 

No.

And that, sir, is exactly the opposite of what grace is ( Romans 11:5-6 ).