Outlawing snake handling in churches.

[Salty]

Several States/Commonwealths have made snake handling in churches to be illegal.

Seeing that the First amendment guarantees the freedoms of worship -
Does the govt have a right to restrict this practice.

For the purpose of this discussion - we will assume that the govt has the right
to restrict children under the age of 18 from these services. In addition, we will
assume the govt has the right protect nearby residents from such religious activity.

Please - this is NOT a discussion as to should a church handle snakes or not,
but rather - do they have the legal right under the COTUS.

Info from WIKI

and now this thread is open for this legal discussion!

 

[robycop3]

While I believe they're sinning by DARING GOD, handling snakes in His name, LEGALLY SPEAKING ONLY, I believe consenting adults should be allowed to do so. The consequences are between each individual involved & GOD.

 

[Benjamin]

I believe they should have the right but its all smoke and mirrors, tame snakes anyway because I guarantee you they aren't going to pick up some of the snakes that show up on my property from time to time without going to hospital. On that note, maybe they should have to get a license to prove they have full medical coverage first so others aren't liable for paying their medical bills.

 

[Reynolds]

Several States/Commonwealths have made snake handling in churches to be illegal.

Seeing that the First amendment guarantees the freedoms of worship -
Does the govt have a right to restrict this practice.

For the purpose of this discussion - we will assume that the govt has the right
to restrict children under the age of 18 from these services. In addition, we will
assume the govt has the right protect nearby residents from such religious activity.

Please - this is NOT a discussion as to should a church handle snakes or not,
but rather - do they have the legal right under the COTUS.

Info from WIKI

and now this thread is open for this legal discussion!

I don't see how the States can outlaw snake handling. The 1A is clear. I don't see anything about 18 YOA in the 1A.
The Fringe freedoms are the flanks against the attack on the center. Let the government outlaw snake handling, they will soon be trying to outlaw exposing our kids to "hate." Of course they will call fundamental Christian beliefs "hate."

 

[canadyjd]

Personally, I put it into the same category as sacrificing animals, which, I believe, is prohibited by federal law. I believe Missouri has laws against capturing wild animals in most circumstances. I'm not sure if there is an exception for religious purposes but I would be shocked if there was. I heard of a man arrested for capturing baby turtles and selling them online.

Most importantly, using snakes in worship violates their free will, since they can't speak their consent. Plus, snake handling promotes stereotypes against the snake because it assumes the snake is violent in its nature and the person handling it needs God's protection.

So I think the government has a compelling interest in limiting freedom of worship if such worship involves snake handling.

Peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

Let them handle snakes. Their stupidity will thin them out.

 

[canadyjd]

Let them handle snakes. Their stupidity will thin them out.

That sounds like support for the theory of evolution.lol

Peace to you

 

[Alcott]

Personally, I put it into the same category as sacrificing animals, which, I believe, is prohibited by federal law. I believe Missouri has laws against capturing wild animals in most circumstances. I'm not sure if there is an exception for religious purposes but I would be shocked if there was. I heard of a man arrested for capturing baby turtles and selling them online.

Most importantly, using snakes in worship violates their free will, since they can't speak their consent. Plus, snake handling promotes stereotypes against the snake because it assumes the snake is violent in its nature and the person handling it needs God's protection.

So I think the government has a compelling interest in limiting freedom of worship if such worship involves snake handling.

Peace to you

I know there are exceptions for "native americans" to hunt certain animals and to make sacrifices with them. It's even illegal for anyone except a native american to be in possession of a genuine eagle feather.

And "speak their consent?" A puppy can't speak its consent for you to take it home.

 

[Benjamin]

I don't consent to rattlesnakes being on my property so I make my own exception which is to "handle them" in a confident way - I then sacrifice them for vulture feasts. It's kind of a ritual around here to sacrifice poisonous vipers while giving constrictor snakes a pass...

 

[Benjamin]

Plus, snake handling promotes stereotypes against the snake because it assumes the snake is violent in its nature...

Who told you snakes aren't violent?! This guy?:

Now this is how you handle a snake:

 

[robycop3]

The US has made a number of laws giving certain Indians the right to do some things no one else in the US is legal to do. Certain nations are allowed to grow & consume peyote mushrooms, Others can hunt or fish whenever they choose. I believe any Indian can own eagle feathers.

Far as I know, no Indian religion practices snake-handling, although some individuals may be members of a snake handler church.

But I DO believe no church should be allowed to perform any rite that can harm unwilling people, or practice any type of human sacrifice, including crucifying someone who's fully willing to undergo it. NNE SHOULD EVEN CONTEMPLATE IMITATING WHAT HAPPENED TO JESUS DURING HIS "PASSION" ! ! ! HIS sacrifice covered ALL sacrifices for all time! It was the ULTIMATE sacrifice! After all, He is God, & didn't have to suffer as he did, but He did it at His Father's will, and on our behalf.

But let's not forget that snake handlers often hedge their bet by being selective of which snakes they catch for handling, feeding them shortly before a service, & keeping them cool before a surface so they often welcome the touch of warm hands. While there's the occasional complete idiot in those churches who drinks strychnine or some other poison, we don't see them playing Russian Roulette, dashing across a busy Interstate, or flying kites with metal strings in a thunderstorm.

 

[canadyjd]

I know there are exceptions for "native americans" to hunt certain animals and to make sacrifices with them. It's even illegal for anyone except a native american to be in possession of a genuine eagle feather.

And "speak their consent?" A puppy can't speak its consent for you to take it home.

Oh course she did. I said, do you want to come home with me? She wagged her tail and licked my hand and face. In puppy language that means "yes".

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Who told you snakes aren't violent?! This guy?:

Now this is how you handle a snake:
B

The snake was frightened and obviously felt threatened. The man made unlawful entry into its home. It exercised its constitutional right of self defense.

Peace to you

 

[Alcott]

Oh course she did. I said, do you want to come home with me? She wagged her tail and licked my hand and face. In puppy language that means "yes".

Peace to you

Ask that same puppy if she's a devil worshipper and then tell me her answer.

 

[canadyjd]

Ask that same puppy if she's a devil worshipper and then tell me her answer.

That's a really dark outlook on life. I could never be so mean and cruel to a defenseless puppy. I expected better from Christians.

Peace to you

 

[Alcott]

That's a really dark outlook on life. I could never be so mean and cruel to a defenseless puppy. I expected better from Christians.

Peace to you

I take that to mean what I knew already-- that puppy is just being a puppy;not answering any questions.

 

[canadyjd]

I take that to mean what I knew already-- that puppy is just being a puppy;not answering any questions.

Yes, the puppy was being a puppy. They don't speak, but they do respond to how they are treated.

Snakes run on instinct more than puppies. I remember a story where the family pet python nearly killed the 10 year old son that had it out playing with it. The python was about 10 feet long. The neighbors heard the boy screaming and called police. He was unconscious and the snake had swallowed his foot when the police kicked the door in.

Snakes are wild animals and cannot be trained, only fed. They shouldn't be pets and they shouldn't be used in worship. It is abusive to the animal and should be prohibited by law.

Peace to you

 

[General Mung Beans]

I don't see how the States can outlaw snake handling. The 1A is clear. I don't see anything about 18 YOA in the 1A.
The Fringe freedoms are the flanks against the attack on the center. Let the government outlaw snake handling, they will soon be trying to outlaw exposing our kids to "hate." Of course they will call fundamental Christian beliefs "hate."

Children aren't the property of their parents. There isn't much the government can or should do legally against adults doing snake-handling, but children shouldn't be permitted for the same reason we shouldn't permit parents to abort them.

 

[Alcott]

Yes, the puppy was being a puppy. They don't speak, but they do respond to how they are treated.

Snakes run on instinct more than puppies. I remember a story where the family pet python nearly killed the 10 year old son that had it out playing with it. The python was about 10 feet long. The neighbors heard the boy screaming and called police. He was unconscious and the snake had swallowed his foot when the police kicked the door in.

Snakes are wild animals and cannot be trained, only fed. They shouldn't be pets and they shouldn't be used in worship. It is abusive to the animal and should be prohibited by law.

Peace to you

What you said was that puppy was answering your verbalized question about whether she wants to go with you. Okay, she was just acting like a puppy, as you say now.

You seem to be implying I am in favor of snake handling and/or keeping snakes as pets-- if not, why are you taking a lecture tone in response to my post you quoted? I am in favor of neither. And I think it's terrible there are so many that have bought pythons, to let them go when they realize they are too big to be kept and could be a fatal danger; + what they (the former keepers) have done to ecosystem of south Florida.

 

[Reynolds]

Children aren't the property of their parents. There isn't much the government can or should do legally against adults doing snake-handling, but children shouldn't be permitted for the same reason we shouldn't permit parents to abort them.

They sure aren't property of the state. Where is she specified in the First Amendment? Does it say those 18 and above have freedom of religion?