Washing Our Windows

[Alan Gross]

Hmm, Cain made a request of GOD, GOD HEARD HIM. Deny it, get mad, whatever. Cain prayed, GOD heard, God granted. God doesn't need your approval to hear and grant a request from whomsoever HE pleases.

Genesis 4
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

The mark was not granted until AFTER Cain's PRAYER.

You must not have read anything in these Passages.

Cain didn't ask for a mark.

Cain was just crying that he thought he would be killed, the same way he killed.

Cain was whining, when he was being spared from Hell, Temporarily.

God Chose to see to it Cain could quit crying and complaining in fear of being killed, when it wasn't God that Said Cain should fear that, and so Cain could continue to concentrate on his quilt and Punishment, as an example for others to fear being murders, too.

No prayer.

No request to God granted or Answered.

Same for no Offer of being ''Accepted', other than Ceremonial.

God Commands Obediance and He is Not under 'obligation' to Provide any ability to meet His Commands.

That was sinned away, by Adam.

God Does not Hear the Prayers of the wicked.

They have no Mediator, between God and man.

 

[Alan Gross]

Don't you love it when a poster claims he or she is a 5 point uh non-Calvinist.
The T, U, L and I of the TULIP are as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Why did God set life and death before people if they were unable to choose life.
No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why did God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth if the election was unconditional? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world if He died only for the elect? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness if our faith is given and instilled in us by God, since if that were true, it would already be righteous. No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.

I stopped reading at your assumption that Life and Death Offered had any relationship to Salvation, because your philosophys, sentimentalities, and Biblical "boasts" have been asked and answered to deaf ears, forthcoming for Centuries.

 

[HankD]

No prayer.

No request to God granted or Answered.

Same for no Offer of being ''Accepted', other than Ceremonial.

Wrong.
The truth stares you in the face.

 

[Alan Gross]

Wrong.
The truth stares you in the face.

They aren't there.

Able's blood, maybe:

"the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground"

Cain said his punishment was greater than he could bear and God Left the same Punishment on him God Pronounced.

Not having Cain cast into Hell, yet, was Mercy, and putting a Mark on him was Mercy.

No request.

No grant.

Expostulating is not Prayer Granting.

God had been Expostulating Cain, since being wroth and having his coutenence fallen.

Then, Cain murdered Able and God, again, Expostulted with Cain.

God didn't say Cain would be killed, Cain did.

Cain didn't know anything about asking for a Mark to protect him; God just did it to further indicate His Object Lesson, to others.

 

[HankD]

They aren't there.

Able's blood, maybe:

"the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground"

Cain said his punishment was greater than he could bear and God Left the same Punishment on him God Pronounced.

Not having Cain cast into Hell, yet, was Mercy, and putting a Mark on him was Mercy.

No request.

No grant.

GOD communicated with Cain.
Repeating your error doesn't make it true.
I've prayed for you.
Goodbye.

 

[Alan Gross]

Now it's 'Communicated' and that makes no prayer and no answer an 'error'.

Don't act like God Answers lost people's 'prayers'.

And, especially, not for 'Salvation'.

That is not How God Saves souls.

And God didn't Give this lost soul any 'oppurtunity', or 'day of grace', to 'do' something to be 'Accepted', in Salvation.

Nor, is God Obligated to Provide any ability Suffecient to Satisfy His Authority to Command their PERFECT ADHERENCE to GOD'S ENTIRE LAW, from conception, to death.

I can't imagine anyone having issue with what is in those Passages, from God's Perspective.

 

[HankD]

Now it's 'Communicated' and that makes no prayer and no answer an 'error'.

Don't act like God Answers lost people's 'prayers'.

And, especially, not for 'Salvation'.

That is not How God Saves souls.

And God didn't Give this lost soul any 'oppurtunity', or 'day of grace', to 'do' something to be 'Accepted', in Salvation.

Nor, is God Obligated to Provide any ability Suffecient to Satisfy His Authority to Command their PERFECT ADHERENCE to GOD'S ENTIRE LAW, from conception, to death.

I can't imagine anyone having issue with what is in those Passages, from God's Perspective.

I know you can't but It is very important brother.
It has to do with your believe of the character of God and how He is approached - Cain made a request of God and He answered him.

HE is no different today when the unregenerate approach Him.
And no one can approach Him without the guidance of the Holy Spirit (whether they know it or not).

I used the word "communicate" in lieu of "prayer" because of the hardness of your heart.

 

[Van]

Abraham in "Abraham"s bosom is found in the Luke 22:19-31 passage.
The OT Saints having to wait to be made perfect is found in Hebrews 11:39-40.

Chapter and verse please.

And I am not the one who did not know how to find "Abraham's bosom or "made perfect."

 

[Van]

I stopped reading at your assumption that Life and Death Offered had any relationship to Salvation, because your philosophys, sentimentalities, and Biblical "boasts" have been asked and answered to deaf ears, forthcoming for Centuries.

More deflection, more avoidance of the truth. More against the man disparagement. They all use the same fallacies to support bogus doctrine.

The T, U, L and I of the TULIP are as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Why did God set life and death before people if they were unable to choose life.
No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why did God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth if the election was unconditional? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world if He died only for the elect? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness if our faith is given and instilled in us by God, since if that were true, it would already be righteous. No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.

 

[HankD]

The OT Saints having to wait to be made perfect is found in Hebrews 11:39-40.

doesn't mention Abraham who was BEFORE the Old Covenant.

Also: Isaac was born again
Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[Van]

Good grief, Luke 22:19-31.
Galatians 4:28-29 does not say or suggest Isaac was born again during his lifetime.

You really need to devote time to bible study, Sir. Start reading Galatians 4 at verse 21, and you will see the idea is Isaac was physically born through the spiritual power of God's promise, not spiritually born anew.
No OT Saint was made perfect, they all had to wait.

 

[HankD]

Good grief, Luke 22:19-31.
Galatians 4:28-29 does not say or suggest Isaac was born again during his lifetime.

You really need to devote time to bible study, Sir. Start reading Galatians 4 at verse 21, and you will see the idea is Isaac was physically born through the spiritual power of God's promise, not spiritually born anew.
No OT Saint was made perfect, they all had to wait.

so say you.

Sees quite clear.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[Alan Gross]

I know you can't but It is very important brother.
It has to do with your believe of the character of God and how He is approached - Cain made a request of God and He answered him.

HE is no different today when the unregenerate approach Him.
And no one can approach Him without the guidance of the Holy Spirit (whether they know it or not).

I used the word "communicate" in lieu of "prayer" because of the hardness of your heart.

What was the 'request'?

 

[Alan Gross]

What was the 'request'?

Oh, I see it.

It is exactly the opposite of what you have been saying.

If there was any 'request', from Cain, it was within himself, wishing he would just die by being killed by the people who would see his murder of Cain, as deserving immediate death,

BECAUSE, he deserved it AND because of the Punishment that God had Sentenced him to.

God did exactly the complete opposite of 'granting' Cain's ', request.

God MADE SURE CAIN WOULD NOT "BE ABLE to JUST Die" and "get out of The Punishment God Placed on his life.

Gill says,

" Genesis 4:15

And the Lord said unto him
In order to satisfy him, and make him easy in this respect, that: he need not fear an immediate or bodily death, which was showing him great clemency and lenity; or in answer to his begging for death, "therefore", or as some render the word, taking them for two, "not so" F25; it shall not be that whoever finds thee shall slay thee, thou needest not be afraid of that; nor shall thy request be granted, that thou mightest be slain by the first man that meets thee: it was the will of God, that though Cain deserved to die, yet that he should not die immediately, but live a long miserable life, that it might be a terror to others not to commit the like crime".

So, the conscience of the lost soul mentioned by Van in this "Washing our Windows" thread doesn't work on a lost soul.

Cain had plenty of guilt in his conscience, to the extent that he wished to die, rather than reap temporally what he had sowed, but his request for that remedy to clear his conscience WAS NOT AWARE OF HIS SIN AGAINST GOD and THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT for HIS SOUL that he was in ETERNAL DANGER of LOSING to AN INFINITE FIREY FURNACE in HELL.

Crain's concerns and self- pity were FATALLY MISPLACED.

His 'request' to 'wash his hands' of the temporal concerns he had for himself was ETERNALLY FATAL.

The lost are Commanded by God to Repent of THEIR PERSONAL ETERNAL SINS AGAINST The PERSONALLY OFFENDED ETERNALLY ANGRY GOD WHO HATES SIN.

 

[HankD]

What was the 'request'?

"my punishment is greater than i can bear"
- take away my punishment it is greater than I can bear

the structure of the Hebrew statement is "QAL" for the word AMAR (to speak,say) which can have the nuance of a request or a command depending on the relationship between the communicators.

in Genesis 4:15 Jehovah answers Cain using something called a particle adverb - LICON (translated "therefore") indicating a positive answer to the request.


Yes I took Hebrew at Calvary University at Kansas City.

 

[HankD]

Oh, I see it.

It is exactly the opposite of what you have been saying.

If there was any 'request', from Cain, it was within himself, wishing he would just die by being killed by the people who would see his murder of Cain, as deserving immediate death,

BECAUSE, he deserved it AND because of the Punishment that God had Sentenced him to.

God did exactly the complete opposite of 'granting' Cain's ', request.

God MADE SURE CAIN WOULD NOT "BE ABLE to JUST Die" and "get out of The Punishment God Placed on his life.

Gill says,

" Genesis 4:15

And the Lord said unto him
In order to satisfy him, and make him easy in this respect, that: he need not fear an immediate or bodily death, which was showing him great clemency and lenity; or in answer to his begging for death, "therefore", or as some render the word, taking them for two, "not so" F25; it shall not be that whoever finds thee shall slay thee, thou needest not be afraid of that; nor shall thy request be granted, that thou mightest be slain by the first man that meets thee: it was the will of God, that though Cain deserved to die, yet that he should not die immediately, but live a long miserable life, that it might be a terror to others not to commit the like crime".

So, the conscience of the lost soul mentioned by Van in this "Washing our Windows" thread doesn't work on a lost soul.

Cain had plenty of guilt in his conscience, to the extent that he wished to die, rather than reap temporally what he had sowed, but his request for that remedy to clear his conscience WAS NOT AWARE OF HIS SIN AGAINST GOD and THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT for HIS SOUL that he was in ETERNAL DANGER of LOSING to AN INFINITE FIREY FURNACE in HELL.

Crain's concerns and self- pity were FATALLY MISPLACED.

His 'request' to 'wash his hands' of the temporal concerns he had for himself was ETERNALLY FATAL.

The lost are Commanded by God to Repent of THEIR PERSONAL ETERNAL SINS AGAINST The PERSONALLY OFFENDED ETERNALLY ANGRY GOD WHO HATES SIN.

Why such anger friend, I am trying to show you what I believe is going on here between Cain and GOD.
Obviously you don't wish to receive it - I believe your anger is misplaced, from whom to whomever I can't tell but I believe its confounding your judgement.

Believe it or not God still cares for Cain.

Can't you tell?

So just chalk it up to a difference in belief.

 

[Alan Gross]

More deflection, more avoidance of the truth. More against the man disparagement. They all use the same fallacies to support bogus doctrine.

The T, U, L and I of the TULIP are as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Why did God set life and death before people if they were unable to choose life.
No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why did God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth if the election was unconditional? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why did Jesus become the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world if He died only for the elect? No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.
Why does God credit our faith in Christ as righteousness if our faith is given and instilled in us by God, since if that were true, it would already be righteous. No answer will be forthcoming because the doctrine is unbiblical.

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the LORD and said,
“From going to and fro on the earth,
and from walking back and forth on it.”

Then the LORD said to Satan,
“Have you considered My servant Job,
that there is none like him on the earth,
a blameless and upright man,
one who fears God and shuns evil?”

So Satan answered the LORD and said,
“Does Job fear God for nothing?

Have You not made a hedge around him,
around his household,
and around all that he has on every side?

You have blessed the work of his hands,
and his possessions have increased in the land.

But now, stretch out Your hand
and touch all that he has,
and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

And the LORD said to Satan,
“Behold, all that he has is in your power;
only do not lay a hand on his person.”

So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD."
(Job 1:6-12

 

[Alan Gross]

Why such anger friend, I am trying to show you what I believe is going on here between Cain and GOD.
Obviously you don't wish to receive it - I believe your anger is misplaced, from whom to whomever I can't tell but I believe its confounding your judgement.

Believe it or not God still cares for Cain.

Can't you tell?

So just chalk it up to a difference in belief.

Yep, different for one,
because there is a total absence of anger.

Other than God's Anger Toward Cain's Wickedness.

Jude 1:11
"Woe to them!
They have traveled the path of Cain;
they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam;
they have perished in Korah's rebellion."

Abel's blood made a 'request' from the ground.

Cain made a 'request' to die.

GOD REFUSED CAIN'S REQUEST.

Gill, again, repeated:

"In order to satisfy him, and make him easy in this respect,
(where Cain made a 'request' to die.)

that: he need not fear an immediate or bodily death, which

(GOD) was showing him great clemency and lenity;

or in answer to his begging for death,
(where Cain made a 'request' to die.)

"therefore", or as some render the word,
taking them for two, "not so" F25;

"it shall not be that whoever finds thee shall slay thee,"

thou needest not be afraid of that;
(where Cain made a 'request' to die.)

nor shall thy request be granted,
(where Cain made a 'request' to die.)

that thou mightest be slain by the first man that meets thee:

it was the will of God, that though Cain deserved to die,

yet that he should not die immediately,
but live a long miserable life,
that it might be a terror to others
not to commit the like crime".

Does that sound like The Bible, in I John 3?

11 "This is the message you have heard from the beginning:

We should love one another.

12 "Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother.

And why did he slay him?

Because his own deeds were evil,
while those of his brother were righteous."

...

Psalm 38:20
Those who repay my good with evil attack me for pursuing the good.

Proverbs 27:4
Wrath is cruel and anger is like a flood, but who can withstand jealousy?

Proverbs 29:10
Men of bloodshed hate a blameless man, but the upright care for his life.

 

[Alan Gross]

"my punishment is greater than i can bear"
- take away my punishment it is greater than I can bear

the structure of the Hebrew statement is "QAL" for the word AMAR (to speak,say) which can have the nuance of a request or a command depending on the relationship between the communicators.

in Genesis 4:15 Jehovah answers Cain using something called a particle adverb - LICON (translated "therefore") indicating a positive answer to the request.


Yes I took Hebrew at Calvary University at Kansas City.

Cain's 'request' or 'a command'
was positively DENIED with a particle adverb.

He Received God's Punishment Pronounced
and had the sun to rise on him and rain,
with no other Providential 'grant' than that.

Gill, again, repeated:

"In order to satisfy him, and make him easy in this respect,
(where Cain made a 'request' to die
that CAIN INVENTED
and HAD NOTHING to DO with GOD.)

that: he need not fear an immediate or bodily death, which

(GOD) was showing him great clemency and lenity;

or in answer to his begging for death,
(where Cain made a 'request' to die.)

AND TO MAKE SURE CAIN RECEIVED HIS SAME PUNISHMENT GOD PRONOUNCED, NOT TO RELEIVE ANYTHING GOD PRONOUNCE but TO ENSURE THAT PUNISHMENT WAS CARRIED OUT.


Matthew 5:44; "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

45 "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.
He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good,
and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

46 "If you love those who love you,
what reward will you get?
Do not even tax collectors do the same?…

GOD "CARED" TO DETERMINE
TO PUNISH CAIN
WHILE HE LIVED:

regardless of whether God had the sun to rise on him and to put rainwater on his head, like everybody else,

GOD "CARED" TO DETERMINE
TO PUNISH CAIN
ETERNALLY:

Cain has been Burning
in The Fires of Hell for Over Seven Thousand Years

AND WILL SUFFER
IN HELL FOREVERMORE.

Jacob have I Loved and Essau have I Hated.

Withdrawing 'relief' from Punishment is Hate.

Casting into an Everlasting Lake of Fire is Hate.

10.10.3 THE WRATH of GOD
HAS Consumed Cain, Pharaoh & Judas in HELL.

10.10.4b For THOSE WHO HATE GOD:
There is Punishment;
“you child of the devil,
you enemy of all Righteousness”

10.10.4c THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
Prepared Everlasting Fire for the Devil
and “His Fiery Indignation Will Devour the adversaries.”

10.10.4d An Invitation from God;
“If you do WELL? Won’t you be ACCEPTED ?”


10.10.4e The GOD of The BIBLE
has NOT LOST HIS AUTHORITY
to Command Obedience to His Law;
GOD is GOD.

10.10.4f “Why are you irate?
and what is your “look” of ‘contempt’ and resentment ?”

10.10.4g Cain has been Burning
in The Fires of Hell for Over Seven Thousand Years.

 

[HankD]

Another day...