Layman's Confession of Faith

I know you addressed this post to Van but I just couldn't resist.
God does do as He pleases it's just that you have no Idea of what God pleases. God follows His own plan and His plan has nothing to do with what you think. You do not know the mind of God. We can only see His plan as it happens in perfection. The way we see prophecy is like a fast glance with out complete comprehension. It seems to me that what you believe about faith is nothing more than fantasy You keep trying to make faith out to be two different kinds.
There is only one kind of faith in scripture so stop with your made up fantasies.
MB.

 

Ah, yes sir, that is The Revealed Message from our Creator Written in His Eternal Words, to Mankind.

Ah, no sir, that is not what the sin-cursed reasoning of a fallen, carnal mind, at emnity with God, in their finite flesh, will boast about, in their denial of The Revealed Message from our Creator Written in His Eternal Words, to Mankind that "Election is based upon the Will of God, period, based upon His choosing, not upon Foreknowledge!", because "to be carnally minded is death",
Romans 8:7-8
King James Version (KJV)
7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8" So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders."

False witnesses.

 

See you just proved my presentation of your view as accurate.

Your own words:

“people prevented the lost from entering the kingdom, which is to say prevent them from putting their faith fully in Christ. “​

In other words mortals are the gate keepers, not the Lord Jesus who said He is the door.

Do you deny you stated agreement with God doing as He pleases?

Do you not see that as Calvinist expression?

So I merely ask if you have become Calvinistic in thinking?

 

Where does scripture say that Jesus is the gate keeper?
Satan works through men to keep people from being saved. They do it with false doctrine like yours and the pharasee's. Because you are drawn to Christ you mistakenly assume this is Salvation. When Salvation cannot come until you believe in Christ and receive Him in your heart.
MB

 

Do you not know?

Have you not heard?

1“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

7So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”​

Do you not know the Word (Jesus) is the gate keeper and the door?

Though some say the condemnation, some the bondage to sin and grave, I consider it the Scriptures.

What does the Scripture say of the Word?
It is “sharp, powerful, divider, separator,...”. What does a gate do?

Who is “the Word made flesh?” The Lord Jesus Christ.

That you seem to not be readily aware of these things, how can you rightly discern the error I point out in @Van’s presentation?

You cannot, so remark in the exuberance of one who cannot digest much more than milk?

Van presents humans can prevent God and God’s Word and work. He inappropriately uses Matthew in vain attempts to “prove” his view.

You have agreed with that error.

Do not pretend Satan has preventive authority!

Does not the Scriptures state the Lord told Peter the very “gates of hell” will not prevent the building of the church?

Yet, you and @Van, who have no authority over such matters, pretend to know that humans can prevent the work of God!

And then spout agreement that God can do anything He pleases, yet not be shown the inconsistency of that statement, which is more Calvinistic than not.

 

I'm surprised at one who claims to know the scripture, and doesn't know the difference between a gate and a door.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The Gospel is the way that leads to life. Many stumble at it for a lack of knowledge. false prophets have diverted many away from the gate. and the gospel keeping them from knowing about Salvation. Maybe you need to read the whole chapter of Mat. 7
MB

 

So, you then agree that the gate is the Scriptures, as I indicated in my post.

Good, now unless you want to recant that agreement, and continue to pretend that the gospel is something other than the Scriptures, move to the next goal post.

HOW does faith come?

Does not the Scriptures state that faith comes by hearing? And does not Scripture state hear comes by the Word, Scriptures?

The hearing ability is part of the imparting of the Scriptures. That is, without the Scriptures, no hearing is imparted.

Upon the opening of hearing (understanding), by the work of the Holy Spirit, Faith then comes. NOT human hope, but the “assurance of things...the evidence of things...”




See, there is NO human ability to prevent hearing nor the delivery of faith.

Do you see that the teaching @Van attaches to Matthew of humans preventing is error?

Therefore, the question remains, are you mature enough in the Scriptures to understand from whence saving faith comes, and how the Scriptures (The Word, Christ) are the gate keeper, the Shepherd’s voice is ONLY heard by His sheep, and as Shepherd He leads and they listen to His voice.

 

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. But you are wrong in that there is no one who can interrupt the process of Salvation. Men and women do it all the time with potential believers. It's what the Pharisee's did they would distract and interrupt and preach false doctrine. Haven't you ever heard that the devil prowls around looking to sift what has been sown in there hearts. With out the roots of the gospel they have no chance. That means with out the gospel being down deep in there hearts there faith is useless. The evil one comes and snatches it away. He does this by entering people like the Pharisee's to do Satan's bidding
This is why I'm saved the gospel being memorized when i was a boy. I didn't accept Christ until I was 14 years old but the gospel of Jesus Christ was already there, hiden in my heart. The seed was already planted and the seed put down roots long before I was saved

It has nothing to do with maturity because you are completely off track. What does the scripture say that Van showed you and then you claim he is wrong. If He is wrong then scripture is wrong. No sir there is no doubt you are denying the truth of scripture.
MB

 

Amazing how I offered Scripture support and you offer none.

How you do love to distract and bluff by claiming agedman’s view as false.

But then you would know all about absurdity.

Taking Matthew as proof of a view is called proof-texting and only one clinging to absurdity is one who must use proof-texting.

 

Did you not agree God can do what God wants done?

 

You must then address the problem of God not being sovereign (doing as He pleases) concerning all matters.

I do not concern myself with a benign god that is less than totally in control of all aspects concerning those chosen to believe. Rather, God is the door, the gatekeeper or He is not. Either His sheep hear His voice (as Paul states hearing the Word brings faith as in faith comes by hearing the Word) or He has no sheep and is a ranch hand. Remember, ONLY His sheep hear his voice, only His sheep respond to His, from salvation throughout eternity.

The sheep do not choose the shepherd. What a silly notion that sheep have such ability!

Answer these questions:
1) To whom was the audience Matthew was writing his account?
2) Specific to that group, how did God declare they worship, and in what manner did He specify sin be dealt with once a year?
3) Who had total authority of expelling folks they considered unworthy from that or any approach God had determined prior to the cross?

When you understand the answer to those questions, you will perhaps catch a glimpse of how erroneous @Van s on attempting to build a view upon a single Scripture. It is called proof-texting.

You got some Scripture that proves this statement?

Obviously, you perhaps are referring to the parable of the seed and sower.

Therefore answer a few questions.
1) Who is the owner of the land and determiner of the soil use and preparation?
2) Does the soil have any authority in determining on its own the preparation, use, when seeds are sown, in what manner the seeds are received, the time of harvest, what is harvested, ....
3) The seed is indiscriminately scattered over the land, but what part is harvested?
4) Was any attempt made to harvest all or even other then the prepared soil?

Thank you for a testimony supporting the Calvinistic view.

Van showed Scripture and then abused it by inappropriate use and presentation of which the Scripture does not support.

That you are not aware of this is demonstrated by not only your agreement with Him, but you go further by assuming Van is correct and placing Him as the determiner of what is Scriptural, a most dangerous place of complicity to error.

In this post, I have ask a few questions.

Will you discern?

 

How do you know what he wants done

God's sovereginty? where does scripture say God is soveregin. That is a Calvinist idea and then they misinterpret the word. God is all powerful. Which means He is not limited by the false doctrine of Calvinism. Because He is not limited does not mean He rides rough shod over men stomping them into the ground because they do not believe. God loves His whole creation and that includes all men
God is not the ruler of present day earth Satan is though Satan is limited in what he can do.by God.

This is ridiculous. There is no gate keeper and you cannot prove there is. The Gate is wide open for all who care to follow the path of Christ. Getting through is easy just follow the path that leads to the door. Ultimately Christ being the door will save you if you believe the truth about Him This is a guarantee.

You should know you do it enough though you most often misunderstand what your quoting

Christ told Peter this that Satan desired to sift him;
Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Since you desire to discuss Van. Why not discuss Van with the man him self instead of making your post into evil gosip?
MB

 

Not my concern.

So you would believe less than an omnipotent, omnipresent God who is the creator and sustainer of all that is created?

Your words against a view, does not present anything more than your opinion. I would rather consider my Father is the Sovereign who is in total control of all matters at all times to His glory.

Such is not a particularly Calvinist view, nor is Sovereign a particularly Calvinist word. It is a word indicating how one's view toward the Father is in complete submission.

Ps. 103:19 - "the Lord has established His throne in the heavens; and His sovereignty rules
over all."
Dan. 7:27 - "the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the
whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom
will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him."
I Tim. 6:15 - "He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords."
​

You attempt at rebuke is a silly attempt with no support.

.

I did but you didn't accept the teaching, and your attempt to discredit the teaching brings no weight.

You are merely stating your opinion.


It is obvious that you disagree about gate keeper and door. If you are desiring learning, you can start another thread in which you explain who is the gatekeeper that opens the gate at the command of Christ.

Perhaps you can convince others that the gate is "wide open" and in some manner is closed when Christ approaches and must demand that it be opened.

I doubt that you have such courage or even interest in really discerning the Scriptures. Certainly your response to my post shows very little real desire to learn, much less to actually perceive the teaching of the Lord.

You do nothing to respond to the questions, and attempt to dismiss them.

Doing so, you bring rebuke to your own life by putting yourself into denial of the truth.

I merely ask questions to help guide you into learning. Are you as the unwise who seek what is pleasing only to themselves and rejecting what is Godly wisdom? Are you as the foolish who turn to every breeze of good sounding doctrine?

Look at the questions. Apply those questions to the Scriptures and learn the truth.

That is all I sought in bringing them into the discussion. To help you and bring you to be a discerner and not reliant upon others sweet sounds with no foundation.

You are mixing two different concepts. That which Christ spoke directly to Peter, and that which Paul stated is the business of Satan toward all believers (going about seeking whom he may devour).

Christ's prayer was specific for Peter, and there is no indication that the prayer was extended to every believer.

Paul's statement, though, is to every believer as a warning.

Do you not understand this?

Because MB keeps butting in trying to defend him, and spouting about what he obviously has no truth nor understanding.

Perhaps MB will in the future look back upon this exchange and when ready will again look upon the questions and when answered find just how erroneous the views he held actually were.

Or, you could now go back and write down each question, and then look at the relevant passages to actually put learning into use.

Or you could dismiss the agedman as a fool who is also blind.

up to you.

I'm done with this thread.

 

" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 )
Notice that people who are already saved count the preaching of the cross as the power of God.

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." ( John 10:26 )
Notice that people don't believe, because they are not "of" His sheep.

" But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:36-40 ).

Notice that people had actually seen Christ in the flesh, yet had not believed on Him.
He then tells them what it is to "come to Him".
It is to believe on Him.

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).
Notice that those who were ordained ( appointed, determined, commissioned ) to eternal life, believed.
Not the other way around.

Letting the Scriptures speak for themselves, I think you may wish to re-evaluate the order of belief versus salvation.

 

Salvation is one of the things that He does according to the good pleasure of His will ( Ephesians 1:3-14, Romans 9:16 ).

" [I am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." ( Revelation 1:18 ).
Not in those words, but close enough, as I see it.

Keep reading, MB.

Satan blinds men to the Gospel...but he only blinds the ones who will never believe ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).
The lost.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that belief of correct doctrine can either result in becoming saved or staying lost, but it wasn't the Bible.

Christ's sheep, His elect, "hear" His voice and follow Him ( John 10:27 )...because they are His sheep, they have "ears to hear" ( Matthew 11:15 ) and it is given to them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven ( Matthew 13:11 )

" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:44 ).

MB, it appears that you mistakenly assume that those that are drawn by the Father will not be raised up ( glorified, please see Romans 8:30 ) on the last day.
Notice that it says that those who are drawn, will be raised up.

The first resurrection ( Revelation 20:4-6 ) is reserved for those who are Christ's...the saved.
The second resurrection, of death, is reserved for the lost.

 

You have the cart before the horse.

What man does in no way influences God to bestow His favor on anyone.
If that were true, then man's efforts would result in gaining God's favor, making God reliant upon the man's actions in order to save him or her.

That is not grace, that is works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
I'm not sure who taught you this, but it's not in the Bible.

As am I.
Christ is the door of the sheep ( John 10:1-5, John 10:7-9 ), and He also holds the keys to death and of Hell.

Christ Himself said,
" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 )

Christ Himself is the way...the Gospel itself is not the way.
It is the message of a person's salvation ( Ephesians 1:13 )

Many stumble at it because they think it is foolishness ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ), they are "natural men" who cannot discern what only the spiritual can discern ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ) and they are blind to it ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

I would advise you to do the same.
Many think they are on the road to Heaven because of something they did...instead of something God did.

Matthew 7:21-23.
If anyone is saved, it is because God had mercy and compassion on them ( Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:14-18 ), and created them for Himself ( Isaiah 43:7, Isaiah 43:21, Romans 9:22-24 ).