Let's see some Scriptural authority for APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION

[robycop3]

I'm not KJVO so I am hardly an expert on that. They don't bother me. I don't agree with them but I could be in one of their churches because I do like the KJV. It is the first translation that I read.

As for the Quakers, they and The Salvation Army do not baptize so they are wrong on that issue and I am surprised that you suggest them at all.

Please tell me what you cannot understand from the following six verses (warning not hip-hop slang):

Psalms 23:1-6 (KJV) <<A Psalm of David.>> The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Glad to know thou art not KJVO; it's a false doctrine.

I suggested Quakers to be sarcastic about the use of Elizabethan English. They're not Christians.

And THIS is much-easier to understand:

The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.
2 He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
3 He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,I will fear no evil;For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;You anoint my head with oil;My cup runs over.6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow meAll the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever.

 

[church mouse guy]

Glad to know thou art not KJVO; it's a false doctrine.

I suggested Quakers to be sarcastic about the use of Elizabethan English. They're not Christians.

And THIS is much-easier to understand:

The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.
2 He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
3 He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,I will fear no evil;For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;You anoint my head with oil;My cup runs over.6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow meAll the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever.

There you go again. Who asked you what you thought was easier to understand when we already know that you want the latest slang version of Scripture.

The question about Psalm 23 was what was there that you did not understand about it when presented to you in King James Version. You dodge the question, didn't you?

 

[church mouse guy]

For many years after Henry VIII’s reformation of the Church of England, the people with political power had strong control over religious worship. There were people, however, who wanted to do what they believed God was telling them in the Bible, rather than what the king’s officials told them. One such man was John Smyth.

Smyth believed that baptism by immersion – having your whole body covered by water – should be the basis of church belief. He travelled to Amsterdam, where he and his friend Thomas Helwys baptised each other by pouring water over their heads. They founded their church in 1609 and later practiced baptism by full immersion.

The first Baptist Church was established in Spitalfields, London in 1612. The Baptist Church as we know it today evolved from the belief that the things taught by the early apostles in the New Testament should be more important than any ‘government or established’ teaching of the Church. In other words, no king, queen or parliament should rule the Church – only God’s word, the Bible could. Some Baptists paid dearly for holding to this belief and were put to death. It was Oliver Cromwell who first allowed Baptists greater freedom and influence. By the 17th century many Baptist churches had been established, particularly in London.

In my viewpoint, apostolic succession is tied up with Peter as the first Pope. It is custom and tradition in a sense and who knows if something such as the laying on of hands is historically accurate. It has a chance to be and it is a nice thing to think about but other than that, who knows? That the Bishop of Rome was head of all Christians was disputed in 1054 and again 500 years ago. All three branches of Christianity are weakened by widespread apostasy and a failure to teach what is believed and why it is believed so the conflict has faded in importance to preserving what is left of the institutions. Nonetheless, Protestant adherence to the critique of the RCC has been unchanged for the last 500 years and the Eastern Orthodox have nearly a thousand years of saying that the Pope is not the vicar of Christ. The RCC has locked themselves into many doctrines unique to them and now it is being reported in the news that about 3/4ths of the RCC no longer believe in the transubstantiation. Maybe some things will just be walked away from as time goes by.

 

[Jerome]

Quakers...They're not Christians

Oh brother.

Charles Spurgeon, 'The Common Salvation':

"You shall take a high churchman who is a truly spiritual man...and you shall set him down side by side with the most rigid member of the Society of Friends and when they begin to talk of Jesus, of the work of the Holy Spirit in the soul and the desire of their hearts after God, you will hardly know which is which! The nearer we come to Him, who is the salvation of God, the more plainly we see that among the children of God the basis of agreement is far wider than the ground of division."

 

[Alan Gross]

Nothing like ignoring the actual text of the Scriptures. I just quoted them verbatim, there is no ambiguity in those words. It is you of the Netherlands who have twisted them and others all in a knot.




I quoted the appropriate verse. Once again, you twist it to match your own sect's doctrine. You take what you believe and reverse engineer the scriptures to match it.

To the rest of your musings all I can say is: Good grief!

You don't know why, but those verses don't Teach what you made them up to teach.

Why don't you know what The Bible Teaches?

Who do I ask to see if they will give you permission that does your thinking for you?

 

[Alan Gross]

For many years after Henry VIII’s reformation of the Church of England, the people with political power had strong control over religious worship. There were people, however, who wanted to do what they believed God was telling them in the Bible, rather than what the king’s officials told them. One such man was John Smyth.

Smyth believed that baptism by immersion – having your whole body covered by water – should be the basis of church belief. He travelled to Amsterdam, where he and his friend Thomas Helwys baptised each other by pouring water over their heads. They founded their church in 1609 and later practiced baptism by full immersion.

The first Baptist Church was established in Spitalfields, London in 1612. The Baptist Church as we know it today evolved from the belief that the things taught by the early apostles in the New Testament should be more important than any ‘government or established’ teaching of the Church. In other words, no king, queen or parliament should rule the Church – only God’s word, the Bible could. Some Baptists paid dearly for holding to this belief and were put to death. It was Oliver Cromwell who first allowed Baptists greater freedom and influence. By the 17th century many Baptist churches had been established, particularly in London.

For many years after Henry VIII’s reformation of the Church of England, the people with political power had strong control over religious worship. There were people, however, who wanted to do what they believed God was telling them in the Bible, rather than what the king’s officials told them. One such man was John Smyth.

Smyth believed that baptism by immersion – having your whole body covered by water – should be the basis of church belief. He travelled to Amsterdam, where he and his friend Thomas Helwys baptised each other by pouring water over their heads. They founded their church in 1609 and later practiced baptism by full immersion.

The first Baptist Church was established in Spitalfields, London in 1612. The Baptist Church as we know it today evolved from the belief that the things taught by the early apostles in the New Testament should be more important than any ‘government or established’ teaching of the Church. In other words, no king, queen or parliament should rule the Church – only God’s word, the Bible could. Some Baptists paid dearly for holding to this belief and were put to death. It was Oliver Cromwell who first allowed Baptists greater freedom and influence. By the 17th century many Baptist churches had been established, particularly in London.

That's nice. Thank you, for trying to say something. You 'gave' Baptists 'immersion'. That's nice.

Whether Smyth would be considered Baptist, as in The Authority of God to baptize through the Succession of Scriptural Baptist Baptism, from John the Baptist, by Baptists of The Kinds of churches Jesus Built, or Jesus, I don't know.

If he had Baptist Baptism and held to Baptist Doctrines, unlike Calvin, who had Baptist believers put to death, that he had it 17 Centuries after all other Baptist Believing congregations before him.

 

[Alan Gross]

Oh brother.

Charles Spurgeon, 'The Common Salvation':

"You shall take a high churchman who is a truly spiritual man...and you shall set him down side by side with the most rigid member of the Society of Friends and when they begin to talk of Jesus, of the work of the Holy Spirit in the soul and the desire of their hearts after God, you will hardly know which is which! The nearer we come to Him, who is the salvation of God, the more plainly we see that among the children of God the basis of agreement is far wider than the ground of division."

Shouldn't everyone here, at least, know as much as Quakers, about Baptists?

 

[Alan Gross]

In my viewpoint, apostolic succession is tied up with Peter as the first Pope. It is custom and tradition in a sense and who knows if something such as the laying on of hands is historically accurate. It has a chance to be and it is a nice thing to think about but other than that, who knows? That the Bishop of Rome was head of all Christians was disputed in 1054 and again 500 years ago. All three branches of Christianity are weakened by widespread apostasy and a failure to teach what is believed and why it is believed so the conflict has faded in importance to preserving what is left of the institutions. Nonetheless, Protestant adherence to the critique of the RCC has been unchanged for the last 500 years and the Eastern Orthodox have nearly a thousand years of saying that the Pope is not the vicar of Christ. The RCC has locked themselves into many doctrines unique to them and now it is being reported in the news that about 3/4ths of the RCC no longer believe in the transubstantiation. Maybe some things will just be walked away from as time goes by.

The Holy Spirit is The Vicar of Christ.

Peter was an Apostle.

The Great Commission, the Power to bind and loose in church Discipline, and Scriptural Baptism by The Authority of God, were Given to The churches Jesus Built.

They were Promised Continued Existed by Jesus Christ and were Publically Inugurated, as The Divine Institution of Jesus, on The Day of Pentecost, with The Indwelling of The Shakina Glory.

Satan's Synagogue, where Satan's seat is, has been doomed as The Great Whore, and will be cast into The Eternal Lake of Fire, with any Pope's who were not Mercifully Saved by Jesus, if any, just prior to Satan's doom there.

I will be there to see it.

 

[church mouse guy]

The Holy Spirit is The Vicar of Christ.

Peter was an Apostle.

The Great Commission, the Power to bind and loose in church Discipline, and Scriptural Baptism by The Authority of God, were Given to The churches Jesus Built.

They were Promised Continued Existed by Jesus Christ and were Publically Inugurated, as The Divine Institution of Jesus, on The Day of Pentecost, with The Indwelling of The Shakina Glory.

Satan's Synagogue, where Satan's seat is, has been doomed as The Great Whore, and will be cast into The Eternal Lake of Fire, with any Pope's who were not Mercifully Saved by Jesus, if any, just prior to Satan's doom there.

I will be there to see it.

I recognize that the Pope calling himself the Vicar of Christ is just a title. I don't think that the Holy Ghost is the vicar of Christ as the word "vicar" is a medieval clerical title.

 

[Adonia]

That's nice. Thank you, for trying to say something. You 'gave' Baptists 'immersion'. That's nice.
.

Oh I am sorry, I forgot to put what I posted in quotes. That was not me, but some Baptist organization that I found on the net. My mistake.

 

[Adonia]

Peter was an Apostle.

Yes he was. And the Lord said to him as reported in Matthew 16:19:

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Yes, it's true, the exact words from the Holy Scriptures. These are not my words, but those of Jesus Christ, God Incarnate on this earth. If you have a problem with them as written, you will need to take it up with Him (Jesus) in the hereafter.

 

[robycop3]

There you go again. Who asked you what you thought was easier to understand when we already know that you want the latest slang version of Scripture.

The question about Psalm 23 was what was there that you did not understand about it when presented to you in King James Version. You dodge the question, didn't you?

Me? I have no prob understanding Elizabethan English, but many others may. It's simply obsolete, same as the Model T Ford.

 

[Alan Gross]

OK, we went thru a whole thread, & still have no Scriptural authority for the office of pope, proving it's a man-made hoax. So, let's move on to the next RCC fraud, apostolic succession.

Can you RCs provide any Scriptural authority for apostolic succession ?

Roby, I am not an 'RC', whatever that is, however regarding your criteria of 'Scripture Authority, for anything, 'Apostolic', or having to do with an 'Apostle', this is The Bible on it:

To be an Apostle, you must have personally been with Jesus.

That is why Jesus Appeared to Paul and Talked with him.

You?, not me. And 'RC'? Anyone else, who has ever lived?

This is a OK, basic Bible description, answering:

Who were the 70 (or 72) disciples in Luke 10? | GotQuestions.org

And, as you may well know:

"One of the requirements for apostleship was that the candidate had to

“have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection” (Acts 1:21–22).

Paul witnessed Jesus' Having Resurrected.

He saw Jesus, personally.

That is The Bible Requirement, to be an 'Apostle'.

There is NO Teaching of 'Apostolic Succession' in The Bible,

Once, Paul and The 70, & The 12 Apostles were gone, there have been no more Apostles, or anyone, that has had Miraculous Gifts Communicated to them.

Again, there is NO Teaching of 'Apostolic Succession' in The Bible,

...just as there is NO Promise of anyone being Given a Miraculous Gift, other than those named, and/ or pointed out, specifically, i.e., The 70.

 

[Alan Gross]

Oh I am sorry, I forgot to put what I posted in quotes. That was not me, but some Baptist organization that I found on the net. My mistake.

That doesn't matter, this is just a board. Not like you're trying to make money off something.

Everyone references a lot of stuff.

What is important is what Identifying Marks of Doctrine that make up The Criteria Jesus Established, when He Designed, Organized, and Founded His churches.

The Organization you found make be 'Baptist', by Jesus' Criteria, or 'Baptist', by using that name and not believe much, or know much.

 

[church mouse guy]

Me? I have no prob understanding Elizabethan English, but many others may. It's simply obsolete, same as the Model T Ford.

Your analogy fails. The KJV is better than many others that were printed later.

 

[Alan Gross]

Yes he was. And the Lord said to him as reported in Matthew 16:19:

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Yes, it's true, the exact words from the Holy Scriptures. These are not my words, but those of Jesus Christ, God Incarnate on this earth. If you have a problem with them as written, you will need to take it up with Him (Jesus) in the hereafter.

Jesus Knows I know what He meant and who and what He was Speaking to and about, when:

..."the Lord said to him as reported in Matthew 16:19:

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
...

This is a similar Teaching to what Jesus Said about 'Forgiveness of sins":

John 20:19-23

19 It was the first day of the week, and that very evening, while the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. “Peace be with you!” He said to them. 20 After He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” 22 When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”

...

The 'keys to The Kingdom' is The Gospel.

Jesus Gave His Gospel to His Churches, as a Divinely Instituted Organism and Organization.

Jesus Gave His church that He Had Built, "The Great Commission", including The Gospel, by which lost souls could be Saved.

Peter was an Apostle and a Scripturally Baptised member of The church Jesus Established and Commissioned and Gave The keys to The Kingdom to.

Jesus Gave the keys to The Kingdom and The Great Commission to His Kind of church and Promised to be with them until the End of The Age.

That Promise was Given to His church, as a Divine Entity, not any individual person, at all.

All those members of that church Jesus Built eventually died.

Jesus' Bride has never died.

Those are His Kind of churches.

The woman who fled into the wilderness.

...

Here is, just plain, straightforward, sober, Bible Interpretation,
of John 20:23, Gill

Whose soever sins ye remit

God only can forgive sins,
and Christ being God, has a power to do so likewise;

but he never communicated any such power to his apostles;

nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves, or pretend to exercise it;

it is the mark of antichrist, to attempt anything of the kind;
who, in so doing, usurps the divine prerogative, places himself in his seat, and shows himself as if he was God:

but this is to be understood only in a doctrinal, or ministerial way, by preaching the full and free remission of sins, through the blood of Christ, according to the riches of God's grace, to such as repent of their sins, and believe in Christ; declaring, that all such persons as do so repent and believe, all their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake: and accordingly,

they are remitted unto them;

in agreement with Christ's own words, in his declaration and commission to his disciples; see ( Mark 16:16 ) ( Luke 24:47).

On the other hand he signifies, that

whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained:

that is, that whatsoever sins ye declare are not forgiven, they are not forgiven; which is the case of all final unbelievers, and impenitent sinners; who dying without repentance towards God, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, according to the Gospel declaration, shall be damned, and are damned; for God stands by, and will stand by and confirm the Gospel of his Son, faithfully preached by his ministering servants;

...and all the world will sooner or later be convinced of the validity, truth, and certainty, of the declarations on each of these heads, made by them.

...

Jesus Gave His churches, as a Corporate Institution, The keys to The Kingdom, which was The Gospel, which The Holy Ghost Could Give Power to 'remit' sins.

The Power to bind and loose is The Doctrine of Church Discipline, Given to The Lord's churches, not The Apostles, or any individual, either.

...

I don't know if anyone on this board believes the Bible Teaching concerning the word, 'church', and it's Bible usage and meaning.

So, that is where Satan has Bible readers, here.

That would be a place to start to learn something about what God Says in The Bible about Jesus' churches that has apparently been lost.

It's as if the Testimony of most on this board is that The Two Witnesses, of The Lord's churches and The Preservation of The Inspiration of Scripture, are Dead in the street.

What about that?

 

[robycop3]

Roby, I am not an 'RC', whatever that is, however regarding your criteria of 'Scripture Authority, for anything, 'Apostolic', or having to do with an 'Apostle', this is The Bible on it:

To be an Apostle, you must have personally been with Jesus.

That is why Jesus Appeared to Paul and Talked with him.

You?, not me. And 'RC'? Anyone else, who has ever lived?

This is a OK, basic Bible description, answering:

Who were the 70 (or 72) disciples in Luke 10? | GotQuestions.org

And, as you may well know:

"One of the requirements for apostleship was that the candidate had to

“have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection” (Acts 1:21–22).

Paul witnessed Jesus' Having Resurrected.

He saw Jesus, personally.

That is The Bible Requirement, to be an 'Apostle'.

There is NO Teaching of 'Apostolic Succession' in The Bible,

Once, Paul and The 70, & The 12 Apostles were gone, there have been no more Apostles, or anyone, that has had Miraculous Gifts Communicated to them.

Again, there is NO Teaching of 'Apostolic Succession' in The Bible,

...just as there is NO Promise of anyone being Given a Miraculous Gift, other than those named, and/ or pointed out, specifically, i.e., The 70.

Thanx for your input!

"RC" stands for "Roman Catholic".

 

[Alan Gross]

Thanx for your input!

"RC" stands for "Roman Catholic".

Oh, my God. Those to whom The Bible means absolutely nothing, then.

No wonder.

 

[church mouse guy]

Nothing?

 

[Alan Gross]

Nothing?

There is nothing RC has to do with God or The Bible and nothing God or The Bible have to do with RC, apart from RC's business of the denial, opposition, and Anti-Christ perspective on God and The Bible and the Promises by God to Judge His enemies.