Walter Martin & his assessment of SDA's

You also have a misunderstanding of the two natures. Jesus is 'one' with His Father in His nature as Deity (never Person/Being), and 'one' with His disciples in His nature as humanity.

In humanity they share in the Throne of David (the 'my throne' of Jesus). Jesus in Deity, shares the Throne of His own Father, see

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The disciples are not deified. They are however the 'body' of Jesus, the 'Head', who sits in the eternal throne with His Father, in this way only are the disciples of Christ now closer to God than even the created angelic hosts.

 

No, she was simply another charlatan in a long list of them.

 

Mat_7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Ellen White
A True Prophet?

 

Luk_22:64 And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?

 

Jesus is God, was Micheal also God?

 

The Sda claims that she was just as inspired as the Apostles, had divine revelation, and yet her teachings denied the Cross, and Pauline Justification!
That the Sda and JW agreed on Jesus as being Michael by that alone means Cult!

 

She seems to be denying then both the ternal existence of Jesus, His true Dei

She seems to be denying then both the eternal existence of Jesus, His true Deity, and that He is both God and Man forever!

 

Let's refute this silliness right now. EGW indeed taught that Jesus is Michael.

EGW write:

But Scripture saysDaniel 10:13, Gabriel speaking) 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

Need any more proof, Sportzz Fanzz ?????

 

Refute what? That has already been acknowledged in some detail, such as here - Revelation 12 - a Verse by Verse, and even phrase by phrase study

I never stated White didn't teach that the Son of God is Michael. I stated quite the opposite in fact. White was in harmony with all the Reformers before her, including others, such as Baptists like John Gill.

 

Yeah, Gabriel needed assistance from the Son of God (Michael) against the Devil. While Michael (Son of God) stood against the devil, it gave time for Gabriel to go and speak with Daniel.

 

If you would not quote only part of the context, you would see how White defines the words:

"... But although Christ's divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. The human did not take the place of the divine, nor the divine of the human. This is the mystery of godliness. The two expressions human and divine were, in Christ, closely and inseparably one, and yet they had a distinct individuality. Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His Deity could not be lost while He stood faithful and true to His loyalty. Surrounded with sorrow, suffering, and moral pollution, despised and rejected by the people to whom had been intrusted the oracles of heaven, Jesus could yet speak of Himself as the Son of man in heaven. He was ready to take once more His divine glory when His work on earth was done. ..."

Did you just see how White was using the words? Jesus, while taking "the form of a servant" (humanity, fallen sinful flesh) upon Himself, He 'set aside' relying upon His Deity, or His divine glory, or His Godhead, to overcome the world, by relying only upon His Father, by and through the Holy Ghost. He, as "the man" Christ Jesus, had to endure the trials and temptations as every other man, and had to overcome where Adam, the first had failed. Thus all of His "divine glory" was still His own, but was only 'taken back up' after His victory (think of it like a 'vow' (Psalms 116:14,18) of silence, or vow of 'poverty', in that the voice or riches, were still His own, but chose not to use such for a period of time and were under condition), and being glorified in the resurrection and so:

Mat_28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

He was free again from the restriction, He Himself had laid upon Himself.

Did you read the part of the citation, in regards "Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own ..."

The context is of the "man" Jesus Christ. If Jesus, "the man", had sinned (He didn't by choice), Jesus, "the man", the second man (last Adam), would have been forever lost, and would come to eternal death, and the whole of the human race with Him.

"... (same context) For a period of time Christ was on probation. He took humanity on Himself, to stand the test and trial which the first Adam failed to endure. Had He failed in His test and trial, He would have been disobedient to the voice of God, and the world would have been lost. ..." - {ST, May 10, 1899 par. 6}

Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

How could "the man" Christ Jesus pray such an prayer if He had not 'set aside' voluntarily that which was His own? Roman Catholicism's doctrine cannot understand the "mystery of godliness", and therefore rejects "the flesh" of Jesus Christ, and everything that it means to us in His overcoming it.

White is citing and referring to numerous texts here. Philippians 2; 1 Corinthians 15, John 16:33; Revelation 3:21, Hebrews, etc.

How could Jesus say that He "overcame", and had "overcome" the world, if there were no such striving, no such testing?

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Jesus, by becoming man, was on probation as every man, since Adam. Jesus was the second Adam, and so, likewise, given time, as the first:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

"... (same context) Christ emptied Himself of His honored position in the heavenly courts. He became a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. He was, as we are, subject to the enemy's temptations. ..." - {ST, May 10, 1899 par. 8}

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Read also Isaiah 53:1-12 which White also just referenced in the same context.

Thus even in the wilderness, Jesus was being tested, by the Pharisees, and Saduccees and Herodians, and Rome, and so in Gethsemane, and Calvary and during His whole life upon the earth:

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Jesus Christ, the word, went through the trials. He is preserved, even as the golden pot of mana was preserved.

"... (same context) Christ's ascension to heaven, amid a cloud of heavenly angels, glorified Him. His concealed glory shone forth with all the brightness that mortal man could endure and live. He came to our world as a man; He ascended to His heavenly home as God. ..." - {ST, May 10, 1899 par. 15}

Jesus, came as a man, to be among mankind and to lead them out. Jesus took hold of His Father, through faith, and therefore gave us the example:

"... Jesus Christ who gave His life a sacrifice for man, that humanity might lay hold upon divinity.Christ was sent into the world and they crucified Him in the most cruel manner, but He was not left in the grave. He came up, and proclaimed over the sepulcher, He proclaimed the resurrection. He was the life and the strength and the grace through the obedience in His humanity. He did not lose His divinity. He held fast His divinity. They saw humanity and divinity combined. There they were combined, and that is what God wants of us today. ..." - {Ms 120, 1909}

Through this, and laying hold upon Jesus Christ, we too can overcome, even as He overcame, in the very fallen sinful flesh we have, He bore to the cross, condemning sin in the flesh, nailing it to His cross. In Him, we are offered the same, that we might be "partakers" of the divine nature.

 

No kidding, and not just on such, but on many things. Such are either ignorant (and many are, having never read or studied their scripture) or if knowledgeable, are Seventh-day Adventist in name only, being hypocrites, condemning their own selves. For it were better for them if they had not known the way.

There is indeed an entire element amongst us who are 'Catholicized', as White dreamed, as we covered before already:

There was indeed Jesuits among the church and simply ecumenically minded (confused) persons in leadership (not all, such that were against was M. L. Andreasen, and wrote the "Letters to the Churches" - http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-Resource Library/Letters to the Churches.pdf )

Even Ellen White herself wrote of what was to take place:

"... The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a [205] wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2}

Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1} ..." - 1 Selected Messages 204.2 - 205.1

Further she wrote:

"... That night I dreamed that I was in Battle Creek looking out from the side glass at the door and saw a company marching up to the house, two and two. They looked stern and determined. I knew them well and turned to open the parlor door to receive them, but thought I would look again. The scene was changed. The company now presented the appearance of a Catholic procession. One bore in his hand a cross, another a reed. And as they approached, the one carrying a reed made a circle around the house, saying three times: "This house is proscribed. The goods must be confiscated. They have spoken against our holy order." Terror seized me, and I ran through the house, out of the north door, and found myself in the midst of a company, some of whom I knew, but I dared not speak a word to them for fear of being betrayed. I tried to seek a retired spot where I might weep and pray without meeting eager, inquisitive eyes wherever I turned. I repeated frequently: "If I could only understand this! If they will tell me what I have said or what I have done!" {1T 577.2}

I wept and prayed much as I saw our goods confiscated. I tried to read sympathy or pity for me in the looks of those around me, and marked the countenances of several whom I thought would speak to me and comfort me if they did not fear that they would be observed by others. I made one attempt to escape from the crowd, but seeing that I was watched, I concealed my intentions. I commenced weeping aloud, and saying: "If they would only tell me what I have done or what I have said!" My husband, who was sleeping in a bed in the same room, heard me weeping aloud and awoke me. My pillow was wet with tears, and a sad depression of spirits was upon me. {1T 578.1} ..." - Testimonies to the Church, Volume 1, pages 577.2- 578.1

As for "Divine Substance" that is Roman Catholicism's erroneous theology. It is unscriptural.

The nature of the Holy Spirit is not explained in scripture, and thus remains a "mystery", and there is not a man on earth who can explain it. The Holy Spirit is a person, yes, but this is dealing with His mysterious nature. It has not been given to us in scripture to know. Therefore, to speak upon as you do, is presumptuous, and so, the LORD rebuke thee, in His time, and in His way, and show to you not to speak above that which you are able.

Shawn Boonstra, is in error. I have watched the video a long time ago. It is more of Roman Catholicism that has seeped in. I assume him to be simply ignorant of the facts, and lay nothing to his charge. Most of those TV personnel (including Boonstra, nice guy, I like him) went to the corrupted (by Jesuitism) seminaries. White warned them all of such false schooling that would come.

You just stated a falsehood. White never was 'Arian'. Numerous citations have been given you already. White eventually (being raised Methodist, which had already succumbed) did not subscribe to the error of Roman Catholicism's "trinity", nor the "Divine Substance" dogmas. Therein is the difference.

Yes, I am sure there are many which simply believe what some pastor told them on TV. That doesn't make the theology right, nor does it make them evil. They are simply ignorant of facts, while some few may have more knowledge and reject truth as it is written in the scripture on it.

I agree. QoD is a mixture of truth and error, and this happens to be a massive error that it espouses. I always warn people about QoD and the material therein. There were people even at Amazing Facts ministries who didn't know the error it contained when I ministered there, until I told them and showed them. So it is not at all surprising to me pythons, as the old saying goes, been there, done that, and now it is old hat. Were those persons evil? Of course not. They were just ignorant, never taking the time to look into these things. Most of them are too busy to even notice. God will bring it to their attention, He is faithful.

Now this is somewhat true and somewhat untrue. Some few specific persons in leadership took the position, while many others rejected. such as M L Andreasen, and he was disfellowshipped because of it. Only later post-humously to be re-instated by those who were faithful amidst the betrayal.

Again, another falsehood. The Seventh-day Adventist movement was never "arian", or "semi-arian", though there were (and ever are today) some individuals who utterly refuse to come into line upon line. They are called "Seventh-day Adventist" by themselves, and may even be on the record books of the church, but that does not make them real Seventh-day Adventists. For that, Isaiah 8:20 comes into play.

Yes, I know Shawn Boonstra (no longer with It Is Written), and have watched every thing he did. I saw that airing, and you are correct, that it does give "an accurate defense of the Trinity", but unfortunately, it is an erroneous doctrine, not taught in Scripture, nor the Spirit of Prophecy. It is simply part of the fallout of the QoD era, of which many never studied the matter fully, and again, I do not place any blame upon Boonstra (I like him), and merely think he is ignorant of the matter.

Even so, an episode on TV by a pastor, even well known, is not what constitutes actual Seventh-day Adventist theology.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Therein is the standard, and no other, no matter their position, paygrade, rank, status, nationality, age.

 

Can you show me where the Person of the Father personally took upon Himself the fallen sinful flesh of mankind?

 

You added that. Nowhere was that ever stated by White, that Deity could "eternally cease to exist". Those were not the words she used in reference to the divine glory of Jesus Christ. Humanity would have ceased to exist, not Deity.

 

The question is faulty, based upon incorrect Roman Catholic theology, and therefore your assumed answer is also conclusively in error.

 

Why would I attempt to repudiate that which is scriptural, or try to gainsay White who is in harmony with the scripture as already shown? He, "the man" Christ Jesus, Adam (1 Cor 15:44-46), was given the choice to obey or disobey all along the way, but He chose the good over the evil:

Php_2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.