WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

Correct not in those exact words.

 

That's NOT what the Scriptures say. They're speaking of those who are saved, then fall away. (Not just simple "backsliding", but rejecting their faith completely.)

I know of just such a case, of a man who went from sinner to saint, then back to sinner. Some try to tell me he was never truly saved, but no unsaved person could preach with the power this man did. Unfortunately, this man died from ingesting a combo of alcohol & dope while in a bawdy house. What became of his soul is known only to God, not us, but i'd venture to say he's not too comfortable right now.

Personally, having felt God's power & seen some actual miracles, my own faith will remain unshaken no matter what. I simply don't know what turned that man from God when he had to have been empowered by the Holy Spirit to have preached as he did. His decline didn't come overnight; it was about a year & a half in the making. Maybe he gave in to the temptations of his prior life of booze, dope & prosties, but whatever it was, took his life. About 6 months before he died, I tried to talk him out of his sin, but he just laughed & said, "You still believe that junk? I know it's about as true as the Easter bunny & Santa Claus."

When he died, I was saddened because Hebrews 6:4-6 immediately came to mind. But I DO know that JESUS will ALWAYS do HIS part in saving us, & I will personally continue in faith in Him.

 

wr

wrong,

it is not doctrine but a list of what will be written and why, Written to THE Hebrews who were believers, not salvation again, because one cannot be unsaved but maturity of Christians

 

no read it in pieces, paragraphs
The writer wants to speak of maturity, not salvation again because they were saved and cannot crucify Jesus everytime they sin, or cannot fall away "better things of you"

Was Jesus death only good for past sins? Current sins at the time of His death? no ALL SINS
He knew you were a sinner and would continue to sin, despite ones efforts not to. He paid for all sins

 

I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person truly "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lose or lost salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is IF (verse 6). According to this view, the writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away." The point being made is that it would be impossible IF a Christian fell away to renew them again. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage then presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion that they would crucify again for themselves the Son of God.

In regards to the never truly saved view, the words, once enlightened - which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in sharing in, a partner in a work, office, dignity. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews 3:14 in the context of believers, "For we have become partakers of Christ," so at first glance, partakers of the Holy Spirit "on the surface" would seem to support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the indwelling of believers. It's plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Spirit (his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by temporarily responding to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. *Note that the writer of Hebrews does not state that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or have "received the Spirit's pledge which is the guarantee of future inheritance." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality and character of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).

In regards to fall away, in Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were not truly born again.

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this agricultural metaphor, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. When we recall other metaphors in Scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35), we already have an indication that the most trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation.

It's generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. Now why is it that we never find the words "lose or lost your salvation" in the Bible? That would certainly settle the issue for me. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

*It never ceases to amaze me how the people who attack the OSAS/perseverance/preservation of the saints doctrine the most and in cynical fashion are those who teach salvation by works and ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly disagree with OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me.

 

What do you think partaker of holy spirit means!!!!?? that the Holy Spirit shared a salad with Ghandi?

2 peter 1

4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

2 peter 2

20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

You guys especially, state that a person who is NOT ELECT cannot understand any of the gospel or have any knowledge of Jesus Christ or way of righteousness.

 

3/4 of the seed in the parable of the sower had faith yet washed out. Christ's words are Spirit and truth. Many partake of the Spirit on this level and fail. Only the New Birth secures (good soil) provides lasting faith.

 

Romans 3:3; 2 Timothy 2:13

 

IMO, 'no root in himself' does not equate to 'no New Birth'.

21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth. Mt 13

I'm convinced that the heavenly born are capable of doing everything they're told NOT to do in The Book.

 

This amounts to salvation by hypocrisy (acting). Born again Christians believe because of the witness of the Spirit in their heart. They need not choose to believe since they already do. But choosing to believe with the flesh is nothing more than mimicking what born again people do based on experiencing the Holy Spirit in their hearts.

 

How can grace be conditional and be grace?

 

But Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

...and that not of ourselves

 

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature and are new creations in Christ. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely outward/cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) which describes corruption, destruction, decay, rottenness, decomposition. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) describes pollution, defilement; a stain. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these people because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet was never saved.