Hillsong Church

[simon]

Hillsong's long time worship leader has just stated how he no longer believes Marty Sampson: The Hillsong worship man now enveloped in controversy - Marty Sampson
Since the church has at best dodgy theology and at worst is heretical, I still find there songs played in most churches I have been to including 4 baptist ones (alot lately as i'm looking for a new church). Here's another article Why Hillsong Music is Dangerous For Your Church
So just wondering what the rest of you think.

 

[Walter]

As many on this forum know, I grew up Baptist and trusted Jesus as Savior and Lord. Still do as a Catholic. I believed in the doctrine of Eternal Security and was taught that any one who was truly regenerated could not lose their salvation. I know this cat, Marty Sampson, is not Baptist, but I have read enough of his background to believe he once held the same beliefs as other evangelicals. Bart Ehrman is another example of an prominent evangelical who has completely renounced their faith in Christ. I'm curious as to how those that embrace OSAS account for this. I remember a long time member of this board 'Thinkingstuff' who was once Catholic and became Baptist for many years, stated he believed EXACTLY what evangelicals believe in regards to being saved. Over years here on the board he questioned doctrines held by evangelicals and consequently returned to the Catholic Church. Do you truly believe they never were truly regenerated in the way you view regeneration? Or, do you think they are still saved and will eventually return to the faith? I was told when I announced on this board that I was becoming Catholic that 'I either was never truly saved to begin with' or 'would soon realized how confused I was and would leave Catholicism'. That was many years ago. Not looking to be confrontational here, just wondering what the thinking is regarding those who abandon your evangelical beliefs or abandon Christ altogether?

 

[Shoostie]

OSAS is at best a useless doctrine. If someone renounces Christ, you can just say they weren't saved in the first place.

Why doe OSAS believers think God's grace only become irresistible after you're saved? Why not always?

I never really thought that Marty Sampson's "Jesus is my Boyfriend" songs really built faith. Looks like Samson showed me right.

 

[InTheLight]

OSAS is at best a useless doctrine. If someone renounces Christ, you can just say they weren't saved in the first place.

I think you are failing to grasp the concept of "once saved."

Why doe OSAS believers think God's grace only become irresistible after you're saved? Why not always?

Is that so? Can you name someone who believes in OSAS and the doctrine of God's irresistible grace and who thinks it only occurs after salvation?



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Walter]

OSAS is at best a useless doctrine. If someone renounces Christ, you can just say they weren't saved in the first place.

Why doe OSAS believers think God's grace only become irresistible after you're saved? Why not always?

I never really thought that Marty Sampson's "Jesus is my Boyfriend" songs really built faith. Looks like Samson showed me right.

Yeah, a lot of contemporary Christian music is like that. The “sloppy wet kiss” lyric in “How He Loves” sort of makes me want to throw-up.

 

[Shoostie]

Is that so? Can you name someone who believes in OSAS and the doctrine of God's irresistible grace and who thinks it only occurs after salvation?

The doctrine that God's grace is always irresistible is part of Calvinism.

 

[InTheLight]

The doctrine that God's grace is always irresistible is part of Calvinism.

Yes. And Calvinists believe irresistible grace is what brings one to Christ and once people are saved they are OSAS. So irresistible grace happens before salvation and once saved, always saved.

Now, are you going to name someone who believes in irresistible grace that does not also believe in OSAS?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Shoostie]

Now, are you going to name someone who believes in irresistible grace that does not also believe in OSAS?

Modern Baptists often believe God's grace is resistible until salvation.

 

[InTheLight]

Modern Baptists often believe God's grace is resistible until salvation.

So now you are retreating from your original assertion. Are you new at debate boards or just lousy at them?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Shoostie]

So now you are retreating from your original assertion. Are you new at debate boards or just lousy at them?

I haven't retreated form anything. Maybe you need to read more carefully?

 

[InTheLight]

I haven't retreated form anything. Maybe you need to read more carefully?

(copy, paste)

Now, are you going to name someone who believes in irresistible grace that does not also believe in OSAS?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Reformed]

And Calvinists believe irresistible grace is what brings one to Christ and once people are saved they are OSAS.

Actually, Calvinists do not believe in once saved, always saved (OSAS) as that term is commonly used. OSAS finds its origins in antinomianism. Calvinists believe perseverance of the saints; that true believers will progress in their Christian life (progressive sanctification) by mortifying sin and becoming more like Christ. This does not mean a believer will not/can not fall into sin. They can and often do. However, true faith leads to repentance and obedience. Unless, of course, the Lord in His sovereignty calls a believer home.

 

[Covenanter]

I have heard a little of Hillsong's contribution to "Christian" music & not bee impressed. My feeling is that they are superficial & aimed for appeal to pop culture, rather than reverential worship.

OSAS is at best a useless doctrine. If someone renounces Christ, you can just say they weren't saved in the first place.

Why doe OSAS believers think God's grace only become irresistible after you're saved? Why not always?

I never really thought that Marty Sampson's "Jesus is my Boyfriend" songs really built faith. Looks like Samson showed me right.

I think you are failing to grasp the concept of "once saved."

Is that so? Can you name someone who believes in OSAS and the doctrine of God's irresistible grace and who thinks it only occurs after salvation?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

My understanding of OSAS as commonly taught - as distinct from the Reformed "preservation & perseverance" doctrine - is that once a person is saved by praying the "salvation prayer" he is saved for eternity, regardless of any consistent evidence of a changed, born again life. I've even heard on radio a sermon on Lot "Don't be a disgrace to grace" that one can then lead a evil life without losing salvation. All very superficial & dishonouring to a Holy God.

True salvation implies repentance from sin, belief in Jesus as Lord & Saviour and a life that is a walk in step with the Holy Spirit.

Sadly, these "pop star Christians" lack a true Christian experience.

 

[InTheLight]

Actually, Calvinists do not believe in once saved, always saved (OSAS) as that term is commonly used.

Hard to believe a Calvinist is insisting that the common definition of how a word is used is actually the incorrect way of interpreting it.

Kind of like a corollary to my #1 in my sig.

 

[Reformed]

Hard to believe a Calvinist is insisting that the common definition of how a word is used is actually the incorrect way of interpreting it.

Kind of like a corollary to my #1 in my sig.

I do not know what common definition you are referring to. There is a theological difference between OSAS and perseverance of the saints. I knew about this difference two decades before I became a Calvinist. If that means I am defined by your #1, I will accept that as a compliment and a badge of honor.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk