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All sinful souls would go to Hell Apart from God Choosing them, right?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, Sep 30, 2019.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    God Decreed and
    Chose to Gave Eternal Grace,
    to Some Angels

    and
    By GOD'S OWN POWER and WILL
    GOD Also Gave Eternal Grace
    to confirm Some Angels

    in the Sinless State
    in which they were Created.

    ...
    These are
    The Chosen Elect Angels
    of Our
    ALMIGHTY CREATOR GOD.

    ...adapted from Gill.

    These Elect Angels
    are said to be
    “mighty”,
    and to
    “excel in strength”;
    and
    These Elect Angels

    not only
    “excel in" natural "strength",
    but
    These Elect Angels

    are said to “excel in" Spiritual
    "strength".
    ...
    Those are
    The Chosen Elect Angels
    of Our
    ALMIGHTY CREATOR GOD.

    ...
    There are Other Angels
    Created by God,
    who Were NOT Chosen or "Elected",
    to Receive God's Grace.
    ...
    Our
    ALMIGHTY CREATOR GOD

    Decreed by His Own Will to
    NOT Give Confirming Grace,
    but
    God Decreed by His Own Will,
    FROM ETERNITY PAST,
    to Deny Confirming Grace,
    to

    Other Angels Created by God,
    who Were NOT Chosen or "Elected",
    to Receive God's Grace.
    ...

    To others, He Decreed not to Give Confirming Grace,
    but to deny it to them;
    ...
    and which He was not obliged to Give,
    it being what could not be challenged
    by the laws and dues of Creation,
    and was mere Favor to those on whom it was Bestowed;
    ...
    wherefore the others were left to the mutability of their will,
    which is that weakness and folly the Angels were Chargeable
    within their Creation State,
    (Job 4:18)
    hence of their own freewill they sinned and fell,
    and left their habitation,
    (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6)
    what their sin was by which they fell,
    will be considered in course,
    when we come to the fall of Adam,
    and of theirs;
    ...
    this leads on to observe the other part of the Decree respecting them.
    ...
    1.3.1b. The appointment of them to Wrath and Damnation;
    ...
    in this they were viewed as sinful, fallen creatures;
    ...
    this decree is meant by their being “Reserved in Everlasting Chains under darkness,
    unto The Judgment of The Great Day”,
    (Jude 1:6; 2 Peter 2:4)
    for by Chains are meant the Purposes and Decrees of God,
    by which they are Bound and Held Fast,
    and from which they cannot loose themselves;
    ...
    and as The Decrees of God are called “Mountains of Brass”,
    (Zech. 6:1)
    so they may be called chains of iron and brass for the same reasons;
    ...
    namely, their Firmness, Mutability, and Duration;
    ...
    they are “Everlasting” Chains, and in these, they are Reserved under Darkness;
    ...
    meaning either the state of darkness in which they are,
    being deprived of that Light and knowledge they had;
    ...
    and also being under horror and black despair,
    without the least gleam of the light of joy and comfort;
    ...
    or that state of darkness to which they are Appointed and Reserved,
    even that “Blackness of Darkness” to which the wandering stars,
    as these may be said to be, are Reserved,
    (Jude 1:13)
    and moreover, they are Appointed and Reserved
    “to The Judgment of The Great Day”,
    to The Great Day of The Last Judgment; when they will be brought forth in Chains before the Judgment Seat of Christ
    , and will have their Final Sentence Passed and Executed on them, which as yet seems not to have been done, (Matthew 8:29) then Will Christ Sit on The Throne of Judgment, and saints will stand by, together with the good angels, as approvers of the Righteous Sentence: and therefore saints are said to “judge angels”, as well as the world of the ungodly, (1 Cor. 6:2, 3) that is, the evil angels, to which Judgment they are Appointed by The Decree of God; and to Endure Eternal Wrath and Damnation; signified by “Everlasting Fire, Prepared”, in The Decrees and Purposes of God, “for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41).

    Conversely, what is your God-Hating 'Decree'?
     
  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Christs death did not atone for the sins of angels but man alone. With us, He had human flesh

    He shares humanity w us. He shares nothing in common w the angels of heaven
     
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  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Gill to a great extent in many areas, although I happen to think that he sometimes goes a bit further than what Scripture states.

    While Christ's death, burial, resurrection and blood did nothing for angels...
    Considering that He became a man and shared in our sorrows and temptations, never sinning in the process...
    There are, nevertheless, elect ( chosen, for that is what "elect" means ) angels ( 1 Timothy 5:21 ).

    These angels were not like the others who sinned ( 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 1:6 ), but were instead chosen by God, as Christ's sheep were, reserved to Himself... like the 7,000 in Israel in Elijah's day ( 1 Kings 19:18, Romans 11:4 ).
    These angels, of which 1/3 of them fell with Lucifer when he was cast out ( Revelation 12:3-4 ) do not share in the grace of God the way that the redeemed do.

    Whether or not they share in "electing grace", as Christ's sheep do, I have not come to a firm opinion of... but it definitely is not the grace of God that brings salvation from sins.


    Finally, I myself have no God hating decree.
    He loved me, and gave His Son for me.

    How could I not love Him for that?
    1 John 4:19.:)
     
    #3 Dave G, Oct 5, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    If there is a way to chase down this message, it is great. I was saying what R. C. SPROUL teaches here, as a positive/ negative way to see Predestination.

    I hadn't heard this message or any other from this man, but he is exactly right.

    All sinful souls, When God negatively addresses their condition by doing nothing, God Allows them to go their own way, in sin, and Go to Hell Forever.

    All Human Beings would have Gone to Hell.

    The unbeliever does not believe they are in that sinful condition and have sin that blinds them to God, and THAT THEY ARE IMPOTENT, and have No Ability to even know the Eternal Depth and Consequences of their sins Against God, or...

    ... THAT THAT SIN MUST HAVE GOD INVOLVED TO CONVICT THEM of Their Total Depravity, or Total Incapibility.

    By not Having God Convict them and Give them the knowledge of their inability to believe, Apart from God, THEY DO NOT HAVE THE AWARENESS OF THAT SINFUL CONDITION, FROM WHICH GOD MUST GRANT THEM REPENTENCE.

    All sinful souls are children of WRATH BOUND FOR HELL..

    .. that must Have God Show them their sinful HELPLESSNESS...

    ... that must Have God Convict them of their HELPLESSNESS..

    ... and God must GIVE THEM REPENTENCE of That sinful condition of Helpless, Impotent, Total Incapibility and Depravity..

    ... Then, after Hearing The School Master and The Law and The Gospel, HOW JESUS DIED FOR A REASON, FOR THE SPECIFIC SINS THAT WERE PLACED ON HIM, FOR HIS SPECIFIC PEOPLE (MATTHEW 1:21),

    ...SINNERS ARE COMMANDED TO REPENT AND if God Gives them REPENTENCE Toward God and Faith in The Work of Jesus' Death, Burial, and Resurrection,..

    ... The sinful soul is GIVEN BELIEF.

    THOSE ARE THE SINFUL SOULS GOD CHOSE TO GIVE TO JESUS TO SAVE...

    .. AND JESUS ACCOMPLISHED REDEMPTION FOR THOSE GOD GAVE HIM.

    No sinful soul has ever 'believed', 'had faith', or 'power', for Salvation, UNLESS

    .. THEY WERE PREACHED THE GOSPEL

    ... GIVEN CONVICTION OF THEIR SINS BY GOD..

    ... GIVEN REPENTENCE TO TURN FROM THEIR SIN BY GOD...

    .... AND BE GIVEN FAITH TO BELIEVE AND TRUST IN JESUS BY GOD.

    ...

    EACH and EVERY TIME Salvation is referenced in The Bible in any way IMPLIES GOD SAVED ONE OF HIS CHOSEN ELECT HIS WAY.

    TOTAL DEPRAVITY IS IMPLIED.

    PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL IS IMPLIED.

    CONVICTION OF THE SINNERS TOTAL DEPRAVITY IS IMPLIED.

    GOD GIVEN REPENTENCE IS IMPLIED.

    GOD GIVEN FAITH AND BELIEF IS IMPLIED.

    JESUS IS THE SAVIOR IS IMPLIED.

    ....
    Any 'experience' of religion that does not include the Spirit Wrought Awareness and Conviction of THE SINNER DESERVING HELL, HAVING EARNED AN ETERNITY IN HELL, AND JUSTLY BEING CONDEMNED TO HELL, BY GOD...

    THAT GOD GIVES REPENTENCE AND FAITH...

    HAVE NOT BEEN SAVED AND ARE GOING TO HELL.




    Renewing Your Mind with R.C. Sproul
     
    #4 Alan Gross, Oct 5, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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