When are names written in the Lamb's book of life?

[Van]

Recently a thread was closed after certain posters ran up the number of pages in the thread presenting absurd nonsensical arguments, and off topic endless questions. The ploy was once again successful

One poster claimed all the names of everyone start out in the book. and so by inference, the names of the lost are blotted out. No scripture which says, suggests or hints at this ludicrous absurdity were provided.

It was said because the names of the lost were not written in the book since the foundation of the world, that means their names were written before the foundation of the world, then blotted out at an unstated time. Pure fabrication. There is more evidence that God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars, than God blotted any name out of the Lamb's book of life.

What does scripture actually say.

1) Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 say those whose names were not found written in the book since the foundation of the world were thrown into the lake of fire. Amazingly, posters claimed a logical inference is not that other names found written in the book of life since the foundation of the world were not thrown into the lake of fire.

2) Revelation 21:27 says only those who have been written in Lamb's book of life enter the New Jerusalem. Therefore the people existed before there names were written in the book. Again, this refers to the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, and precludes before the foundation of the world. Notice the verse does not say only those foreseen who have been written. But this is the alteration the naysayers demand.

3) Hebrews 12:22-23 say the spirits enrolled in the general assembly in New Jerusalem have been made perfect. Therefore, they were enrolled after they were placed in Christ. And again, the naysayers deny this obvious truth.

In summary under the New Covenant, names are written in the Lamb's book of life in the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, after God puts them into Christ and made perfect.

 

[agedman]

I can't believe you just have this need to present what is false.

..

What does scripture actually say.

1) Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 say those whose names were not found written in the book since the foundation of the world were thrown into the lake of fire. Amazingly, posters claimed a logical inference is not that other names found written in the book of life since the foundation of the world were not thrown into the lake of fire.

Perhaps someone did, but I don't remember such a post being made.

What actually the verse states is that any not found in the book, were cast into the fire.

This verse has nothing to support or refute your thinking that names are written as time moves and history progresses.

..
2) Revelation 21:27 says only those who have been written in Lamb's book of life enter the New Jerusalem. Therefore the people existed before there names were written in the book. Again, this refers to the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, and precludes before the foundation of the world. Notice the verse does not say only those foreseen who have been written. But this is the alteration the naysayers demand.

You are taking the word "since" as starting and continual, rather than finished and complete. It offers you no support for such a contention. The verse is is in the past tense and not present or future. Names, all and any names are already recorded. As Christ said, ALL the Father gives me WILL come to me...

..
3) Hebrews 12:22-23 say the spirits enrolled in the general assembly in New Jerusalem have been made perfect. Therefore, they were enrolled after they were placed in Christ. And again, the naysayers deny this obvious truth.

No-one denies that believers are to grow and mature in Christ. But that occurs after salvation and not before. The process is ongoing until given that new body in heaven upon the passing or putting off this constrained flesh.

What you seem to thrive upon is the mistaken view that in some manner folks are enrolled AFTER they are placed in Christ. That is purely speculation and has no Scripture foundation. Not a single verse agrees with that thinking.

In summary under the New Covenant, names are written in the Lamb's book of life in the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, after God puts them into Christ and made perfect.

"twaddle".

 

[Shoostie]

2) Revelation 21:27 says only those who have been written in Lamb's book of life enter the New Jerusalem. Therefore the people existed before there names were written in the book.

Do you think Revelation 21:27 means we enter the New Jerusalem at the moment of accepting Christ, that Revelation 21 is spiritual present rather than the future? If your view is that Revelation 21:27 is the end of time (as it were), then I don't see how it means anyone existed before their names were written. But, if you view that we enter the New Jerusalem when we are saved, then yes the verse does imply we existed before our names were written.

Why would God have to "wait and see" what names to put in the book of life? Don't non-Calvinists believe God knows the future, whether or not he predestines us?

 

[37818]

You are taking the word "since" as starting and continual, rather than finished and complete. I

While I may not agree with @Van on some points. His view of the use of "since" seems correct to me. See Hebrews 9:26 usage. ". . . For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: . . ."

 

[Van]

Do you think Revelation 21:27 means we enter the New Jerusalem at the moment of accepting Christ, that Revelation 21 is spiritual present rather than the future? If your view is that Revelation 21:27 is the end of time (as it were), then I don't see how it means anyone existed before their names were written. But, if you view that we enter the New Jerusalem when we are saved, then yes the verse does imply we existed before our names were written.

Why would God have to "wait and see" what names to put in the book of life? Don't non-Calvinists believe God knows the future, whether or not he predestines us?

Ronald Reagan would say, "There you go again."

Provide a quote for what I said, rather than misrepresent my view.

Note folks, the change in topic, rather than address the topic.

Of course we existed for our faith to be credited as righteousness by God and then put in Christ and our names enrolled in the general assembly.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Psalms 139:16. 'Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed, and in Your book they were all written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them.'

 

[Martin Marprelate]

While I may not agree with @Van on some points. His view of the use of "since" seems correct to me. See Hebrews 9:26 usage. ". . . For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: . . ."

True, but you might want to consider Hebrews 4:3. The semantic range of Greek prepositions is very large.

 

[37818]

True, but you might want to consider Hebrews 4:3. The semantic range of Greek prepositions is very large.

How do you see the usage to be different? Hebrews 4:3, Hebrews 9:26, also Luke 11:50.

 

[Van]

Psalms 139:16. 'Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed, and in Your book they were all written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them.'

Next someone will claim that book was the Lamb's book of life. Complete fabrication.

 

[37818]

. . . and our names enrolled in the general assembly.

". . . To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, . . ."
So as I am understanding you to interpret it to mean, " . . . To be enrolled into the general assembly and church of the firstborn ones, who are in heaven, . . ."

 

[Van]

To be consistent, when "apo" indicates a span of distance, it should be translated "from". as in I live a mile from the market, and as "since" when apo indicates a span of time as in since the foundation of the world.

CSB translation choice:

Luke 11:50
“so that this generation may be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world

Hebrews 4:3
For we who have believed enter the rest, in keeping with what[fn] he has said,
So I swore in my anger, “They will not enter my rest,”
even though his works have been finished since the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise, he would have had to suffer many times since the foundation of the world. But now he has appeared one time, at the end of the ages, for the removal of sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Mistranslations and poor translations give rise to bogus or confused doctrine.

 

[Van]

". . . To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, . . ."
So as I am understanding you to interpret it to mean, " . . . To be enrolled into the general assembly and church of the firstborn ones, who are in heaven, . . ."

Yet another fabrication specifically misrepresenting my view and scripture.

to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, Hebrews 12:23 NASB

 

[37818]

Next someone will claim that book was the Lamb's book of life. Complete fabrication.

It is said to be God's book, "Thy book." Compare with Exodus 32:32. So it could be interpreted to be that book. But would be an interpretation, not what it says. God's book in Psalms 139 could refer to a book other than the book of life, Revelation 20:12.

 

[37818]

Yet another fabrication specifically misrepresenting my view and scripture.

to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, Hebrews 12:23 NASB

Ok, you said,

. . . names enrolled in the general assembly.

You did not say, ". . . enrolled in heaven who are in the general assembly."

 

[37818]

To be consistent, when "apo" indicates a span of distance, it should be translated "from". as in I live a mile from the market, and as "since" when apo indicates a span of time as in since the foundation of the world.

CSB translation choice:

Luke 11:50
“so that this generation may be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the world

Hebrews 4:3
For we who have believed enter the rest, in keeping with what[fn] he has said,
So I swore in my anger, “They will not enter my rest,”
even though his works have been finished since the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise, he would have had to suffer many times since the foundation of the world. But now he has appeared one time, at the end of the ages, for the removal of sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Mistranslations and poor translations give rise to bogus or confused doctrine.

All being arguments of interpretation, beginning with the interpretation of the translators.

 

[Van]

It is said to be God's book, "Thy book." Compare with Exodus 32:32. So it could be interpreted to be that book. But would be an interpretation, not what it says. God's book in Psalms 139 could refer to a book other than the book of life, Revelation 20:12.

You have interpreted it to be the Lamb's book, but that view is being read into the text.

 

[Van]

All being arguments of interpretation, beginning with the interpretation of the translators.

When "apo" refers to a span of time it should be translated since. And the inconsistent use of since for a span of time is poor translation. For example one poster thought "from the ..." referred to immediately after the event cited, rather than an ongoing interval.

 

[Van]

Ok, you said,

You did not say, ". . . enrolled in heaven who are in the general assembly."

Here is the quote of what I did say: Hebrews 12:22-23 say the spirits enrolled in the general assembly in New Jerusalem have been made perfect.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Recently a thread was closed after certain posters ran up the number of pages in the thread presenting absurd nonsensical arguments, and off topic endless questions. The ploy was once again successful

One poster claimed all the names of everyone start out in the book. and so by inference, the names of the lost are blotted out. No scripture which says, suggests or hints at this ludicrous absurdity were provided.

It was said because the names of the lost were not written in the book since the foundation of the world, that means their names were written before the foundation of the world, then blotted out at an unstated time. Pure fabrication. There is more evidence that God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars, than God blotted any name out of the Lamb's book of life.

What does scripture actually say.

1) Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 say those whose names were not found written in the book since the foundation of the world were thrown into the lake of fire. Amazingly, posters claimed a logical inference is not that other names found written in the book of life since the foundation of the world were not thrown into the lake of fire.

2) Revelation 21:27 says only those who have been written in Lamb's book of life enter the New Jerusalem. Therefore the people existed before there names were written in the book. Again, this refers to the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, and precludes before the foundation of the world. Notice the verse does not say only those foreseen who have been written. But this is the alteration the naysayers demand.

3) Hebrews 12:22-23 say the spirits enrolled in the general assembly in New Jerusalem have been made perfect. Therefore, they were enrolled after they were placed in Christ. And again, the naysayers deny this obvious truth.

In summary under the New Covenant, names are written in the Lamb's book of life in the period since the foundation of the world to the end of the age, after God puts them into Christ and made perfect.

As Charles Stanle

 

[Van]

As Charles Stanle

I assume you are saying Dr. Charles Stanley holds that view? If so, can you provide a link to where he supports the view our names are written in the Lamb's book of life when God places us spiritually into Christ.