Revelation 12 - a Verse by Verse, and even phrase by phrase study

Who is the Dragon "wroth" with even now?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There are these two primary characteristics of the 'woman', of which the Dragon hates more than anything:

[1] those who obey God in His Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17; John 14:15)

[2] those who have the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10)

These two things, are "to the law and to the testimony" (Isaiah 8:20). Their very existence is a rebuke to all who claim to follow Jesus Christ, and yet do not have these two things bearing witness to them, and because they do not have them, they have all manner of things to replace them in their religious experience; and for some it is noise and bedlam (which they call 'music'), and for others it is looking for 'feeling' deep down (though it also is not of God), and for others it is calling attention to themselves through some 'manifestation' of selfishness (which they call 'tongues'), and for others it is simply accusing of this or that church, and they thrive on accusations, and for others it is claiming to be specialists in heresy and cults, when they themselves often manifest those attributes and strangeness of ideology unfounded in the word (such as CARM, etc.) and so many other things. Yet, none of it, can equal to the things which God himself stated.

 

You do realize that there are many other Baptists that taught the same? Not just John Gill.

Elhanan Winchester was a Baptist.

"... [Page 198] but Michael the great prince shall stand up at that time, whom I take to mean in this place, him, who is as God, the glorious Messiah, the manifested JEHOVAH, who standeth for the children of Israel, as their deliverer; shall then deliver them by bringing to an end that haughty power that shall distress them ... See Dan. XI. 44, 45. XII. 1-4. and 13 ver. ..." [Page 198] - A course of lectures, on the prophecies that remain to be fulfilled : delivered in the borough of Southwark, as also at the chapel in Glass-house yard, in the years MDCCLXXXVII, IX, XC​

"... [Page 199] had not Joshua, that greatest of all generals, (and the greatest figure of the conquering Michael that ever existed) gone out against them. ..." [Page 199] - A course of lectures, on the prophecies that remain to be fulfilled : delivered in the borough of Southwark, as also at the chapel in Glass-house yard, in the years MDCCLXXXVII, IX, XC​

William Miller, was also a Baptist. He taught the same. (but I can guess what you will say about this man of God)

"... [Page 41; Internally Page 83] I shall now examine the remainder of Gabriel's message contained in Daniel XII. 1, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people." Michael in this passage must mean Christ, he is the great Prince, and Prince of princes. ... There are two things for which Christ stands up for his people to accomplish ... Surely this must be by the power of Michael, the great Prince of the Covenant. ..." [Page 41; Internally Page 83] - https://archive.org/stream/WilliamMillerEvidenceFromScriptureAndHistoryOfTheSecondComingOf/Miller evidenceFromScriptureAndHistory secondComingOfChristAboutYear1843 1836#page/n41/mode/1up
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James Petigru Boyce (AD 1827 – AD 1888) served as a Southern Baptist pastor, theologian, author, and seminary professor.

"... [Page 196] ... Michael is probably the Messiah.

J. Pye Smith, First Lines, p. 331 ..." [Page 196] - Abstract of systematic theology​

"[Page 294] MALACHI Chap. 3:1. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me : and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger (angel) of the covenant, whom ye delight in : behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

1. The Lord is to come suddenly to his temple.
2. He is the angel of the covenant." [Page 294] - Abstract of systematic theology​

Christmas Evans, aka "the Bunyan of Wales":

[Page 183] Our Prince has conquered our adversaries. His name is Michael, the power of God. He is the mighty prince that stood up on behalf of his people, ..." [Pages 182-183] - https://archive.org/stream/MN40187ucmf 5#page/n207/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/MN40187ucmf 5#page/n208/mode/1up​

Charles Spurgeon:

"… [Page 554] Let the Lord Jesus Christ be for ever endeared to us, for through Him we are made to sit in heavenly places far above principalities and powers. He it is whose camp is round about them that fear Him; He is the true Michael whose foot is upon the dragon. All hail, Jesus! thou Angel of Jehovah’s presence, to Thee this family offers its morning vows." [Page 554] - Morning and Evening Classic Kjv Edition

See also Charles Spurgeon; Morning by Morning; or, Daily Readings for the Family or the Closet; New York and Sheldon Company 498 and 500 Broadway. 1866 [Page 227] Morning by Morning

Morning & Evening: Morning Devo, Oct. 3rd​

Charles Spurgeon; Evening By Evening; November 30 on Revelation 12:7; copyright 2005 by Bridge-Logos.

"… [Page 364] Michael will always fight; his holy soul is vexed with sin, and will not endure it. Jesus will always be the dragon’s foe, and that not in a quiet sense, but actively, vigorously, with full determination to exterminate evil. ..." [Page 364] - Evening by Evening

Morning and Evening 9/11 AM​

Charles Spurgeon; THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, THE CONQUERING WEAPON NO. 2043 DELIVERED ON LORD’S DAY; MORNING, SEPTEMBER 9, 1888, BY C. H. SPURGEON, AT THE METROPOLITAN TABERNACLE, NEWINGTON.

"By faith we rise into the conquering place this day. In the heavenlies we triumph, as also in every place. We rejoice in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Michael of the angels, the Redeemer of men. For by Him we see Satan cast out and all the powers of evil hurled from their places of power and eminence." - http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols34-36/chs2043.pdf

See also Charles Spurgeon, The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 34; Page 510 - The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit​

Charles Spurgeon; Spurgeon's Sermon on Angels; page 59, the Angelic Life on Earth (November 22, 1868)

"... Be it ours to imitate the angels in fighting a good fight while we are here. We read that Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, and the dragon was cast down. The fight is going on every day. Michael is the Lord Jesus, the only Archangel. We, like Him, and under Him, must stand as champions for the truth, never to surrender, but prepared to suffer, even to blood, striving against sin. ...” - 842. The Angelic Life

Spurgeon's Sermons on Angels​

John Bunyan:

"… [Page 37] So when the battle was over, Christian said, I will here give thanks to him that hath delivered me out of the mouth of the lion, to him that did help me against Apollyon. And so he did, saying,

“Great Beelzebub, the captain of this fiend,
Designed my ruin; therefore to this end
He sent him harness’d out; and he, with rage
That hellish was, did fiercely me engage:
But blessed Michael helped me, and I,
By dint of sword, did quickly make him fly:
Therefore to Him let me give lasting praise,
And thank and bless his holy name always.”" [Page 37] - http://bitflow.dyndns.org/english/JohnBunyan/The Pilgrims Progress.pdf
​

or see also here [Page 76] - http://www.bunyanministries.org/books/pp full text.pdf
or see also here [Pages 57-58] - John Bunyan's The pilgrim's progress;
John Bunyan's The pilgrim's progress;
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The Anabaptists:

The Anabaptists and their Stepchildren

"... to that great King of men and divine Leader of angels, the mighty Archangel Jesus ..." - http://www.reformed.org/sacramentology/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/sacramentology/lee/anab 008.html
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Were these all misinformed, unstudied, unlearned, unprayerful, ungodly heretics who boo-boo'ed (sic)? Do you realize what that would mean for the "Baptists" on the whole?

 

Really? All of them? All of their works showing from the scripture, line upon line?

Not in question. Straw Man, Red Herring. All* those whom I cited, already acknowledge that, as do I.

Yes, the Father is God, see John 1:1-18. So also the Holy Ghost/Spirit, as per Acts 5, and many other places, such as Colossians 2:2-3, etc. Not in question. Straw Man, Red Herring. All* those whom I cited, already acknowledge that, as do I.

You state this, but nowhere demonstrate this.

Instead of acknowledging your error and mal-informed belief, you claim all others are in error, inspite of the given facts. This is why it is not a matter of evidence or facts or intelligence, but one of the heart.

 

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Overcoming:

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The death:

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Mat_16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar_8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar_10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Luk_9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Heb_9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Php_2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Psa_116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

 

Revelation 12 is the central symbolic picture of the conflict between Truth and Error, Righteousness and Sin, Good and Evil.

 

Which one's, and where please? I have not seen such scriptures posted yet. I do not jest. I do not make light of your claim, nor position, as I had been there some time ago. It took me awhile in God's grace and prayerful study, and I do not force anyone to believe, but simply present the evidence given me of God. Simply point me to your objections, and reasons. Thank you robycop3. My heart is filled with the love of God for you, even now, and so I pray that, even if you do not yet believe as I do, I only ask for your consideration and ear to listen to what I have to say in regards your objections and reasons from scripture alone.

 

robycop3, I am still awaiting for you to show where you placed such "Scripture". I haven't seen it yet. Place them (exact Scripture) in this thread, thank you.

 

Did you desire to move on to another subject robycop3? I was still hoping you would show me, so that we could address the texts.

 

robycop3, who is this in the following verses:

Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

Act_6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

Luk_22:68 And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.

 

Looking at Revelation 12:1, and "the woman", being "in Heaven", we see that God fulfilled His promise of bringing in the peoples Israel to the promised land, and therefore, this is evidence for our own Hope, for the promise that God has for us, that He will bring those who follow Him into the Heavenly Canaan. This too, is also, a sign of the victory over the enemies of the land, and God grants the same victory to us, over all the enemies (pride, rebellion, sin, selfishness, etc) that have dwelled in the heart of wickedness. God will cause the light of Heaven to shine within. God creates in us the new heart, for the new land.

 

Not at all. The KJB uses some of the very words as found in so-called 'modern;' versions, notice:

Archaic words? You supposedly mean like these?

abode kernels ancients laden aright lance asunder lusty away with mantle beckon mattock begotten naught bier nurtured bewitched odious bowels osprey calved pangs celestial phylacteries coney plowshare confections rend convince respite cormorant rushes decked soothsayer deride spoil distill suckling dung temperate effect tetrarch estate trafficked forevermore unto fowl usury girdle vaunt hallowed vestments haunt vex heresies wanton infamy yokefellow inasmuch insatiable jeopardy

abase deride heresies pipes temperate abated didst hinds plowshare tenons abode distill importune presbytery teraphim adjure doest impotent principalities tetrarch alms dost inasmuch putrefaction thee ancient doth issue raiment thereon apparel dung jeopardy rampart thine aright effect know ravening thou art eminent laden remission thy asunder engines laud rend timbrel away with estate layer reprobate trafficked backbiting evermore lightness requite travail beget familiar litters riot unto beseech feigned lordly rushes usury bewail fetch lunatic seemly vagabond bewitched firstlings lusty seest valor bondwomen fleshhook mail seethe vaunt bowels footmen maintenance shalt venture breeches forbearance mammon sherd verily brimstone fowl mantle shod vermillion calves fuller maranatha shouldst vex canst gaiety mattock shouldest virtue cleave garners milch smith wanton comely gavest mill solace warp constrains girdle nether soothsayer wayfarers cormorant graven nurtured sore whence couches gross odious speakest wherewith covert guile offscouring stay woof crib handmaid pangs strait wrought dainty harrow paramours suckling yea dearth hast perdition swaddling yonder deck haunt phylacteries tares

abase daubed henceforth principality vestments abode dayspring heresies prognostication vex alms debased immutable psaltery virtue amiss decks impudent quarter visage anise deride inasmuch rampart wanton apparel dispensation issue rid warp aright disquiet jeopardy rifled wayfaring austere distill jot riotous whence away with dung know rushes whereupon backbiters effect laden satiate whet beckoned epistle laud shamefaced winebibber beggarly eventide laver shod woof begot evermore litters smith wrought bemoan familiar lordly soothsayer yea beseech fan lusty spoil yonder bewail feigned mail straits bewitched fetch mammon suckling bittern flanks mantle tares bondwomen flay mattock temperate brimstone footmen mill tenons calves forbearance mite terrestrial carnal foursquare nativity tetrarch celestial fowl offend therein circumspect fuller offscouring timbrel cloven gad omnipotent tittle comeliness godhead or ever unto concourses graven pangs usury confederacy greyhound paramours vagabond convince gross phylacteries valor covert hallowed pipes vehement crib haunts plowshare verity dainties hemlock potentate vermillion

abase disquieted henceforth ravening abate dissembles hoarfrost remission abode distill impudent rend adjuration dromedaries inasmuch riotous alms dung isles rushes apparel effect know sacrilege assuaged enjoined laden satiate asunder ensign lance seethe augment ensues laud sherd away with estate laver sloth backbiting eventide litters smith beget evermore lusty solace beggarly execration mail soothsayer bemoan familiar maintenance stay beseech firmament mantle straits bewail firstling mattock stripling bewitched flagon milch suppliants bier flay mill surfeit bowels footmen naught swaddling calving forbear noontide temperate cleft foursquare obeisance teraphim clemency fowl oblation thereupon comely fuller odious thrice coneys gad or ever timbrel constrains garner pangs trafficked cormorant goodly paramours unshod covert gross perdition crib guile phylacteries dainty hallowed pipes debased haltingly plowshare decked harrow pound delectable haunt rampart​

None of those are being cited from the King James BIble [though they exist therein].

Row 1 is the NIV 1973.

Row 2 is the NASB [from revised ASV 1901].

Row 3 is the NKJV 1982.

Row 4 is the NRSV 1999 ["milch"].
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What was that argument from "archaic" again? Tell me please ...