Jesus is Israel. How so?

[church mouse guy]

1689, before you run off to Tehran and proclaim yourself a true Jew, please explain where Scripture says exactly what you said when you wrote in the # 1 post as I am having trouble finding it:

The Church of Believers are called by God's name - Israel.

 

[Shoostie]

The Jews of today are part of the descendants of Jacob.

You know they're descendants of Jacob how?

And, what does it matter given Galatians 4 that Christians are the seed of Abraham and Sarah and unbelieving Jews aren't.

 

[robycop3]

You know they're descendants of Jacob how?

And, what does it matter given Galatians 4 that Christians are the seed of Abraham and Sarah and unbelieving Jews aren't.

Once again, there's PHYSICAL Israel, of which Judah is a part, & SPIRITUAL Israel, made up of all Christians of all races & nationalities. Spiritual Israel did NOT replace physical Israel & Judah in prophecy.

 

[1689Dave]

1689, before you run off to Tehran and proclaim yourself a true Jew, please explain where Scripture says exactly what you said when you wrote in the # 1 post as I am having trouble finding it:

The Church of Believers are called by God's name - Israel.

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV 1900)

“O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.” Daniel 9:19 (KJV 1900)

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)

“And [Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

 

[church mouse guy]

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV 1900)

“O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.” Daniel 9:19 (KJV 1900)

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)

“And [Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

I don't see that we are called Israel but Christian. You have me all mixed up. No one ever called me a Jew and I never called myself one either. I am not sure that God is called Jew or Israel either. What is the name that God is called by?

 

[1689Dave]

I don't see that we are called Israel but Christian. You have me all mixed up. No one ever called me a Jew and I never called myself one either. I am not sure that God is called Jew or Israel either. What is the name that God is called by?

They are the same.

 

[robycop3]

"Israel" means "he strives with God". It's the name God gave to Jacob, which was passed on to his posterity.

"Jew" is an English handle for Old English "iudeas", from the Latin "iudaeus". It was coined in the 1500s in Britain, along with spelling it with a "j" & had become common usage before 1600. Its meaning was still the same, "a person of the Israeli tribe of Judah" during all this time of word metamorphosis.

And, of course, there are still physical Jews. despite their genealogies before 70 AD being lost, their history clearly shows who they are. While the ten tribes (Samaria) lost their national identity for now, thye Jews never did. And please study Ezekiel 23 closely to see that Aholibah (Jerusalem & the Jews) was to be punished more-severely than Aholah (Samaria & the ten other tribes) because the Jews saw Israel punished by exile by the Assyrians, but yet exceeded the ten tribes in idol worship & general debauchery.

Thus, the Jews have been almost-constantly punished ever since the Babylonian conquest-exile. They did not become a sovereign nation again til May 1948 after the culmination of their punishment by the nazi holocaust. No other people in history has undergone such punishment & abuse from almost every other nation they encountered & still kept their national identity. (Do I see the POWER OF GOD at work there ?)

Now, you can deny these facts all you wnt, but over 2600 years of history speax much-louder than your "replacement theology" does !

 

[robycop3]

They are the same.

No, "Israel" means "strives with God". God was never called "Israel". In fact, the name is unknown in history before God gave it to Jacob.

God gave Jacob that name after he wrestled with the angel. it comes from "sara" (to fight, contend, or strive) and "El" (God).

 

[1689Dave]

"Israel" means "he strives with God". It's the name God gave to Jacob, which was passed on to his posterity.

"Jew" is an English handle for Old English "iudeas", from the Latin "iudaeus". It was coined in the 1500s in Britain, along with spelling it with a "j" & had become common usage before 1600. Its meaning was still the same, "a person of the Israeli tribe of Judah" during all this time of word metamorphosis.

And, of course, there are still physical Jews. despite their genealogies before 70 AD being lost, their history clearly shows who they are. While the ten tribes (Samaria) lost their national identity for now, thye Jews never did. And please study Ezekiel 23 closely to see that Aholibah (Jerusalem & the Jews) was to be punished more-severely than Aholah (Samaria & the ten other tribes) because the Jews saw Israel punished by exile by the Assyrians, but yet exceeded the ten tribes in idol worship & general debauchery.

Thus, the Jews have been almost-constantly punished ever since the Babylonian conquest-exile. They did not become a sovereign nation again til May 1948 after the culmination of their punishment by the nazi holocaust. No other people in history has undergone such punishment & abuse from almost every other nation they encountered & still kept their national identity. (Do I see the POWER OF GOD at work there ?)

Now, you can deny these facts all you wnt, but over 2600 years of history speax much-louder than your "replacement theology" does !

Did Jesus strive with God in the garden? Do we strive with God when he sends trials?

 

[1689Dave]

No, "Israel" means "strives with God". God was never called "Israel". In fact, the name is unknown in history before God gave it to Jacob.

God gave Jacob that name after he wrestled with the angel. it comes from "sara" (to fight, contend, or strive) and "El" (God).

But Matthew said Jesus is Israel. Paul does too if you take him to heart.

 

[robycop3]

i just showed you you're wrong. Apparently, you believe only those Scriptures which suit your notions.

 

[1689Dave]

i just showed you you're wrong. Apparently, you believe only those Scriptures which suit your notions.

You need to interpret the OT through the NT. You will not escape Phariseeism unless you do.

 

[robycop3]

Not at all. Jesus went by the OT while starting the NT.

YOU need to start believing ALL Scripture & learn some history.

 

[1689Dave]

Not at all. Jesus went by the OT while starting the NT.

YOU need to start believing ALL Scripture & learn some history.

If you study Jesus' interpretations of the OT, you can easily see why the Pharisees disagreed with him.

 

[robycop3]

If you study Jesus' interpretations of the OT, you can easily see why the Pharisees disagreed with him.

Jesus NEVER denied physical Israel & Judah would be restored. He never said the Jews would become extinct. He generally interpreted OT Scripture as written, adding that David was a prophet.

God preserved the OT as well as the NT. He had Paul write that Christians are not under "the law". But again, He NEVER denied Israel & Judah will be restored, or that the ten tribes were extinct, or that the Jews would become extinct.

Nor did God ever say He was transferring the prophecies concerning Israel and Judah to His Church !

 

[robycop3]

But Rom 11 says only those who believe will be reattached to what? Israel. Meaning they are not israel.

HORSE FEATHERS!

HERE'S WHAT PART OF ROMANS 11 SAYS: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

Now, NOWHERE does "Jacob" mean the Church ! When used apart from speaking of the man Jacob, it means "all of Israel & Judah". PHYSICAL Israel is NOT SPIRITUAL Israel !

"Replacement theology" is FALSE & APOSTATE !

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus NEVER denied physical Israel & Judah would be restored. He never said the Jews would become extinct. He generally interpreted OT Scripture as written, adding that David was a prophet.

God preserved the OT as well as the NT. He had Paul write that Christians are not under "the law". But again, He NEVER denied Israel & Judah will be restored, or that the ten tribes were extinct, or that the Jews would become extinct.

Nor did God ever say He was transferring the prophecies concerning Israel and Judah to His Church !

“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” Matthew 21:43 (KJV 1900)


“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)


“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” 2 John 7 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

HORSE FEATHERS!

HERE'S WHAT PART OF ROMANS 11 SAYS: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

Now, NOWHERE does "Jacob" mean the Church ! When used apart from speaking of the man Jacob, it means "all of Israel & Judah". PHYSICAL Israel is NOT SPIRITUAL Israel !

"Replacement theology" is FALSE & APOSTATE !

Here's what it really says;

“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” Romans 11:23 (KJV 1900)

If they are Israel, how can they be grafted back into Israel if the believe?

 

[robycop3]

The "tree" is the CHURCH, not israel. You're so mixed up !

 

[1689Dave]

The "tree" is the CHURCH, not israel. You're so mixed up !

If the Christ hating Jews are Israel, to whom are any grafted back into upon repenting and accepting Christ? The Christ hating Jews? Those John calls Antichrists?