My Pregnant Sister and CPS

[Squire Robertsson]

My sister in law is in much the same condition as the OP's sister. She has Downs Syndrome. So, she operates at a 6-7-year-old level. The case for statutory rape would vary from state to state. but I can see it being leveled if it can be done in that state. Though, it's my understanding most stated have laws that specifically protect the mentally handicapped. My s-i-l is not a ward of the state. My wife and one of her brothers are her guardians.

I would have to have more information about such a "diagnosis". I've never heard of a lower maturity level of 14 years old being used to take away the rights of a chronically legal aged adult. I think it more likely a statement of immaturity, possibly made by a psychologist than a defining disability that would make someone a ward of the state

 

[Benjamin]

My sister in law is in much the same condition as the OP's sister. She has Downs Syndrome. So, she operates at a 6-7-year-old level. The case for statutory rape would vary from state to state. but I can see it being leveled if it can be done in that state. Though, it's my understanding most stated have laws that specifically protect the mentally handicapped. My s-i-l is not a ward of the state. My wife and one of her brothers are her guardians.

I don't know where you are getting that these condition are even close. We are talking about the possibility of this sister having a 14 year old maturity because she drops out of school and won't clean her room and that is 19 years old and has freely moved out of her house when she was 18 and obviously having no need of any legal guardians.

I've fully acknowledged that if that she was a "mentally handicapped" child that this "boyfriend" would be a problem while demonstrating a lot of reasoning why that probably is not the case.

Again, I don't know the state of her mental disability, if she is going to a special school or what. I do read that she is 19, able to legally make the decision to leave her home, apparently not so challenged to be legal to find and be intimate with a boyfriend or I would think he would be in big trouble unless he were also challenged. A 14 year old mentality could mean a lot of things but as for her judgments much of that would be based on her values at that level rather than just being a bit behind in maturity, you seem to confirm this with saying that you would like her "to wise up and get right with the Lord Almighty." which seems to imply her capability to do so.

 

[agedman]

@Benjamin

This is the first paragraph of the OP.

My sister is currently 19, and a year ago she ran away after she decided that she didn't want to follow my Dad's rules. Keep in mind, my Dad spent his whole life taking care of our mother on her deathbed and raising us to the best of his abilities. He's been through a very hard time to say the least. She has a confirmed mental disability that puts her at the maturity level of a 14-year-old, can't really take care of herself, and right now she lives with my aunt who has done nothing but trash-talked my parents' marriage and encouraged my sister to live a sinful lifestyle.
​

"Confirmed mental disability.
Can't really take care of herself."

These two conditions would place her situation in the hands of the authorities who have both resources and ability to properly handle the situation.

It would be a disservice to not report this situation.

If this girl is still receiving public school support, it will by law automatically be a reported situation.

 

[Benjamin]

@Benjamin

This is the first paragraph of the OP.

My sister is currently 19, and a year ago she ran away after she decided that she didn't want to follow my Dad's rules. Keep in mind, my Dad spent his whole life taking care of our mother on her deathbed and raising us to the best of his abilities. He's been through a very hard time to say the least. She has a confirmed mental disability that puts her at the maturity level of a 14-year-old, can't really take care of herself, and right now she lives with my aunt who has done nothing but trash-talked my parents' marriage and encouraged my sister to live a sinful lifestyle.

Agedman, anyone that has read this thread with good basic critical thinking skills would be aware that not only was I the first to bring up this subject of possible abuse but that I have quoted those very words at least 3 times prior and addressed them in far greater detail than you. I did so in light of multiple other issues that were revealed by the Op, in accordance with various related premises, leading to several rational well-reasoned responses as to why an automatic determination of abuse based on inabilities and legal status was unlikely to be a true conclusion and pointed out your neglect of other important issues that would be a concern to the Op, which I factored in along with your fallacious approach while you attempt to insist on that no other conclusions than yours could be drawn in this matter. Therefore, in my lack of interest in further dealing with your curmudgeonistic arguments and having to repeat myself to you, I will simply let my advice to the Op stand as is and wish her well in my prayers.

 

[NoQuieroUnQueso]

Hello everyone! I probably should've checked on this post sooner, I wasn't getting any notifications that there were any new updates. I think I can provide more info in terms of the situation, the baby's father, and my sister's mental disability. We're a middle-class family, but my sister spent all her funds while running around.

So my sister ran away at 18 to live with my aunt (my mom's sister) while I was at my dorm. I usually go home on weekends and my dad takes me back every Sunday after morning service. He and my sister dropped me off, left, and that night I got a call from my crying father saying that my sister ran away. I instantly started calling up my dad's sisters to be on the lookout for her. Not soon after we found out that she had gone to the aunt she is living with. The reason my sister ran away was because she was 'in a bad mood' but my dad said that they were still going to evening church service. I wouldn't see her again until her next birthday, almost a year after she ran away. We have suspicions that my aunt had been talking to her through a secret facebook account and got her to do this, but without access to the account we can never be sure.

The baby's father is a 19-year-old who already graduated from my sister's high school, and what we didn't know is she's known him since she was a freshman. She had a boyfriend before the father, honestly a nice kid, but she cheated on him with her current boyfriend. I honestly didn't like that because the kid was only 16, was autistic, and we had been taking him to church for a while.

As far as how my sister got pregnant, my aunt took her to get an IUD earlier this year. My aunt told me and my dad that they were just getting her medicine for her time-of-the-month, and lied when we asked her if she had gotten my sister birth control (obviously we weren't buying the charade). However, what my aunt didn't account for was my sister leaving school to get the IUD removed in secret. I don't think my sister got an alternative form of birth control, and part of me wonders if she did it on purpose. Some young teenagers will get pregnant to try and keep their boyfriend around, I just don't know why she'd actually try that.

As far as her mental disability, this is where is gets tricky. She's been diagnosed since she was a baby, couldn't talk until she was 3 and had to go to a special school. Back when she was little (7 or 8) on paper she was diagnosed as having developmental delay and being behind by a couple of years. However, when she got to high school she had to be retested. That's just how they do it. And her high school - a city high school - has an absolute awful special ed program. They didn't do any in-depth analysis to really analyze her true ability. The test itself lasted a day. For reference, I have autism and my tests as a kid took a whole week to do. On paper, my sister currently has a "mild cognitive delay".

And it gets tricky after that because my sister's abilities haven't changed and she's still a couple of years behind, but she's learned how to act like she isn't disabled. In other words, she can talk a big game but if you put a task in front of her, she can't do it. Like a kid that says they're going to fly away, and may even explain to you how they're going to do it, but obviously can't. And no one at her school will spend more than 10 minutes with her to actually determine her skill level. Me and my dad have lived with her, we've seen how she works, nothing has changed in terms of her developmental delay. She has a hard time performing simple tasks, and if my aunt's word is anything to go by she still has trouble doing things as simple as putting her clothes away and washing dishes. She's blown all of her funds in a year, her social security will be gone next month, and my dad is still texting her and trying to get her to go to school. But because the school didn't take the time to properly diagnose her, she is currently "not disabled enough" for APS to take more than five minutes out of their day to see her.

I can give you a good example of what I'm worried about. Back when she lived with us, my sister had a Beta fish in a vase on her cleared-off dresser. It's name was Blu. Blu was a simple fish, but still needed to be fed and have his water bowl cleaned every now and then. This was supposed to be my sister's responsibility. She always forgot to feed him his 3 pellets in the morning, his tank would get super dirty, and the dresser soon became cluttered with junk as she lost interest in the fish. Had it not been for me remembering to feed and clean that poor fish, it would have died. That was a fish, and now she's having a baby. I'm honestly scared for all parties involved.

I've been texting my sister here and there, trying to encourage her to go to school because her and the baby are going to depend on it, but I'm not really getting through to her. But of course I'm going to be there for whatever she needs. Unless I hear that she's seriously harmed the baby or that it's being left alone all day, I don't intend to call CPS, but what I'm trying to do is convince her to try and take this seriously. Because if she treats this like she did her fish, she's going to get her baby taken away. I don't want my sister to go through that, but the school is not nice when it comes to single mothers, and CPS even less so. I'll continue to pray for her, and thank you all for your advice.

 

[Shoostie]

Does she have a legal guardian. If not, why not?

A legal guardian can dictate where she lives and bring the law down on anyone who harbors her.

 

[NoQuieroUnQueso]

Does she have a legal guardian. If not, why not?

A legal guardian can dictate where she lives and bring the law down on anyone who harbors her.

For the reason I mentioned above. When the high school re-evaluated her disability, they didn't put forth time or effort to valuate her abilities in-depth like she had been before. They spent not even a day, writ down "mild cognitive delay", and that was all they were going to put forth for my sister. But her disability still exists, as is evident in her current abilities, and the state could care less about the situation. The school already called APS, but they only took 5 minutes to see her and in that amount of time she didn't look 'disabled enough'.

All that's left to help her is me and my dad. Everyone else has given up, but we love her enough to not abandon her or her child. But she still needs to make the decision to let us help, or there isn't much we'll be able to do.

 

[37818]

. . . she's learned how to act like she isn't disabled.

This sounds like she can be reachable by you and her mom and dad. May God give you fokes the wisdom to instructer her where she will hear and understand.

 

[agedman]

For the reason I mentioned above. When the high school re-evaluated her disability, they didn't put forth time or effort to valuate her abilities in-depth like she had been before. They spent not even a day, writ down "mild cognitive delay", and that was all they were going to put forth for my sister. But her disability still exists, as is evident in her current abilities, and the state could care less about the situation. The school already called APS, but they only took 5 minutes to see her and in that amount of time she didn't look 'disabled enough'.

All that's left to help her is me and my dad. Everyone else has given up, but we love her enough to not abandon her or her child. But she still needs to make the decision to let us help, or there isn't much we'll be able to do.

Not sure what state you are in, but in this state, the typical Admission Review and Dismissal group doesn't change a medical diagnosis, for that must come from a medical authority (doctor, psychologist, ...)

That committee are only there and meet to adjust educational procedures addressing the needs of that diagnosis. That committee must include the guardian unless that guardian cannot attend.

Practically presented the committee may, if there is less need for speech therapy and more need in some specific educational area, modify the approaches, address behavioral needs, and establish appropriate testing measures and modifications.

This is according to state laws and mandates.

The diagnosis (of what you are describing) must be from the medical community, and can only be changed by that community.

 

[Benjamin]

Back when she was little (7 or 8) on paper she was diagnosed as having developmental delay and being behind by a couple of years.

So the only thing close to a "diagnosis" is that a doctor (pediatrician?) documented ("on paper") a 7-8 year old "as having a developmental delay and being behind by a couple of years" does not sound at all, in any rational sense a license for the state to take over control of a now, 19 year old's life. This is why I would caution against allowing yours or others subjective opinions to lead you to try to involve the state in your sister's affairs if your sister would consider such actions an offense and my bet is that she would be offended by such threats. Apart from stepping in by any and all means necessary, including involving the state, should you witness some serious abuse or neglect it appears, as you have also said, that your best option is to help where ever you can rather than just simple-minded take the route of jumping into taking your concerns to the "authorities" of the state.

 

[agedman]

So the only thing close to a "diagnosis" is that a doctor (pediatrician?) documented ("on paper") a 7-8 year old "as having a developmental delay and being behind by a couple of years" does not sound at all, in any rational sense a license for the state to take over control of a now, 19 year old's life. This is why I would caution against allowing yours or others subjective opinions to lead you to try to involve the state in your sister's affairs if your sister would consider such actions an offense and my bet is that she would be offended by such threats. Apart from stepping in by any and all means necessary, including involving the state, should you witness some serious abuse or neglect it appears, as you have also said, that your best option is to help where ever you can rather than just simple-minded take the route of jumping into taking your concerns to the "authorities" of the state.

Actually, the state does have such control.

For example, a family that has a Down syndrome child is visited yearly by a state official for the care and protection of the child no matter how old (chronicle age) that child may be. The only way that is not done is if the family is rich enough that they do not need any assistance from the state/fed for the the child.

In this situation, because the medical community apparently made a diagnosis, that diagnosis cannot change by the involvement of the educational systems.

The federal program(s) are in such authority that the local system must comply or face very serious consequences.

These programs are not aligned totally chronologically, rather they rely upon the medical community, and extend in some cases far beyond the teen years even to the end of that person's life.

I suppose, Ben, that you and I may have some disagreement on what constitutes "serious abuse or neglect" because the pregnancy itself is an indicator that neglect has occurred (imo).

A five year gap (14 mental - 19 chronicle) between mental/emotional maturity and chronology is not minor (problem not age).

This is why I do not agree about involving the authorities.

This young lady has become the willing victim but non - the - less a victim and there needs to be certain legal authorities who not only bring the law, but have other helps available to them to this situation.

It is possible that legal mandates might be made that will bring security and aid to this victim without which would be tragic.

 

[MartyF]

I've been texting my sister here and there, trying to encourage her to go to school because her and the baby are going to depend on it, but I'm not really getting through to her. But of course I'm going to be there for whatever she needs. Unless I hear that she's seriously harmed the baby or that it's being left alone all day, I don't intend to call CPS, but what I'm trying to do is convince her to try and take this seriously. Because if she treats this like she did her fish, she's going to get her baby taken away. I don't want my sister to go through that, but the school is not nice when it comes to single mothers, and CPS even less so. I'll continue to pray for her, and thank you all for your advice.

If you really care, you can start paying for doctor's visits, prenatal vitamins, etc. Ask if she wants to attend a childbirth class and then pay for the one she wishes to attend. Yes, you need to pay for it if you really care. Wagging your tongue will not make your sister feels wanted, valued, or trusted.

One other thing - make sure she is actually pregnant.

You are not going to convince her to leave her boyfriend and any potential boyfriend you put in front of her will instantly be dismissed. She is most likely with him because she feels valued, wanted, and trusted. Over time, this may change depending upon the man she is with.

Recognize that the 16-year-old autistic boy was never her boyfriend. So, you have no right to claim she cheated on someone she had no relationship with.

Stop blaming the schools. Blaming everyone else gives a poor example to your sister. Don't ever blame anyone else for what happened if she is around. Recognize the she could have done more. Lay responsibility primarily at her feet. Next, you and your father can accept responsibility. Stop blaming others.

Drop the savior complex. Let her fail. She can't succeed if she can't fail. Don't try to force success by feeding her fish for her.

Everything you have written tells me that you don't value your sister, you don't want your sister, and you definitely don't trust your sister. You need to change your attitude.

 

[NoQuieroUnQueso]

Yes, she is actually pregnant. We now have an ultrasound to prove it.

Second, she doesn't live with us. She lives with my aunt. I have offered any and all help if she needs it, and yes this would include any medicines or supplies for the baby. I have not 'wagged my tongue' at her in any way. I've only told her that I love her and my niece/nephew, and that I am there for her if she needs anything.

I have not tried to convince her to leave her boyfriend, nor is it my job to put any 'potential boyfriends' in front of her.

The 16 year old was indeed a boyfriend. They called themselves such, they went on dates, and they were doing certain things that frankly only married people should be doing (this is by both their admittance).

My father and I did our best to create a God-fearing, Christian environment based on the Lord's gospel. That much we will take responsibility for. We did not encourage my sister to run away, get birth control, and start living a sinful lifestyle. How do we take responsibility for something we did not do?

Jesus Christ is the savior, and it is only through Him that things will turn out smoothly. Out of everyone in our family, my dad and I are the only ones who haven't abandoned her or this unborn baby. My aunt is currently trying to figure out a way to ditch her in government housing. Jesus could have let us fail, and we'd all be on a path straight to Hell. But He didn't. He gave us the chance to accept His sacrifice for us so that we could be saved through His blood that was shed on the cross for us. It would be an unloving thing to abandon my sister and her baby. If we 'let her fail', she could be homeless and a baby could die. What's the loving thing to do?

I would give my own life for my sister and her child, my dad even more so. I want nothing more than my sister to get right with God again, for her and this baby's future. I love them both very much. I want my sister to come home where she and the baby can have a roof over their head and food on the table, where they can both be safe. I trust in Jesus to lend her the hand she desperately needs. Both me and my dad are there for her, and we will continue to be no matter what.

 

[MartyF]

We did not encourage my sister to run away, get birth control, and start living a sinful lifestyle.

Yet, after 18 years with your father, what is the result?

How do we take responsibility for something we did not do?

Then don’t. But don’t blame anyone else either. The only one able to make decisions is your sister. So, your sister needs to shoulder the blame for her actions. I’ve read your blaming the aunt and the schools, but it is your sister, who in the end, is making the decisions.

If we 'let her fail', she could be homeless and a baby could die. What's the loving thing to do?

This is why it is generally good to let kids fail before it gets this far. Homelessness doesn’t kill babies in the womb. It doesn’t. Yes she could get stabbed, shot, struck by lightning, etc. But she won’t die if she spends the night on the streets. And she likely won’t even have to do that. There are shelters. Winter is coming, so it is not the most pleasant time outside but she is old enough and mature enough to call when she gets cold enough.

If she is a true lunatic and won’t call anyone before she freezes to death, I would have her committed, But otherwise, I would respect her decisions by letting her feel the full weight of their consequences.

She stays with her aunt because she is able to. She doesn’t have to follow rules and she still gets a roof over her head. It seems like the Aunt is just now figuring out this is a bad deal for the Aunt. Who was smarter - your sister or your Aunt?

This goes back to what I said before. You seem to have very low opinion of your sister. You don’t think she can feed herself and take a baby to term without the baby dying? That’s harsh. And if you really feel that she is that much of a lunatic, you should have her legally committed. You can do that in all 50 states of the union and Canada.

Otherwise, I’ve seen babies survive worse situations. However, if the baby comes and she does something which is clearly dangerous to the baby and she doesn’t repent from the dangerous behavior, by all means, call CPS.

You say you love your sister, but do you realize that you haven't said one kind thing about her in your posts on the forums? Not one. I double checked. I'm not perfect so point it out if you have. In addition, you have said some vicious petty things about your sister.

my sister doesn't clean up after herself

Unimportant petty swipe at your sister.

Doesn't pick up her clothes

Who cares. Since when did clothes on the floor kill a baby.

doesn't help do chores

How many harridans say this of their husbands? Are you your sister's harridan?

My sister cannot put forth effort to get a job

She has no motivation to.

and recently the father of the child lost his job.

This means nothing.

This is a cacophony of pettiness. You may "love" your sister, but it doesn't seem like you like her.

Now I will point out how she is self-sufficient. She was able to obtain a doctor's appointment and pay for the removal of an IUD. By your own words, no one helped her with this. She is independent and is able to make her own decisions. They aren't the decisions you would make? Tough luck!

She doesn't have a drug problem because if she did, I'm sure you'd point that out. She doesn't have an alcohol problem or a smoking problem because once again, I'm sure you'd point that out. She's not violent and doesn't loose her temper or else I'm sure you would have pointed that out. After all, you pointed out dirty clothes on the floor. What is with that?

So, to me, she seems to be independent and capable of making her own decisions. But I get it. You don't like her decisions. That doesn't mean her baby will die. Nothing about what you have said makes me even a little worried about the baby's future.

I would not cry wolf to CPS or APS. One should wait until actual negligence or damage is actually done before calling. Calling before then is inappropriate unless she is announcing publicly the she is going to do something dangerous. If you are just now leaving college, make sure you take care of yourself first. Your sister can rise or fall without you.

 

[NoQuieroUnQueso]

You have offered no biblical basis for your hostile accusations or advice. You only attack without being involved in the situation and without knowing me or my father. Therefore, I am going to believe that you are a troll. I am going to instead take biblically founded advice that was provided earlier, and will continue to base my actions on what the Bible says is right to do. Thank you.

 

[MartyF]

You have offered no biblical basis for your hostile accusations or advice.

There isn't a single Bible quote in this entire thread.

So, what I'm wondering is, what are the chances the state are going to get involved?

I don't know how soon CPS would intervene and what would happen if they deemed my sister an unfit mother. What are the procedures in place for this sort of thing?

What's CPS's protocol for that sort of thing? Do they try to keep the baby within the family?

You didn't come here asking for Biblical advice or for prayers. You came here to ask about CPS.

You only attack without being involved in the situation and without knowing me or my father.

You involved me as soon as you posted the thread and introduced your sister. That's how the internet works. If you don't want people involved in a personal problem, don't post your personal problems.

You came here and attacked your sister, the school she attends, her Aunt, etc. You came here swinging and shoveling.

Therefore, I am going to believe that you are a troll.

Well, since you claim to know me so well, I will state that it is clear to me that you don't think your poop smells.

I am going to instead take biblically founded advice that was provided earlier, and will continue to base my actions on what the Bible says is right to do.

Like I said - not a single bible verse here. I'll introduce the first one. Luke 18:9-14

Thank you.

I am so tired of people blowing smoke up my. If you don't mean it, don't say it. And since you called me a Troll previously, you obviously don't mean it.

 

[NoQuieroUnQueso]

I never once said that I was perfect. Far from it. I am a sinner and I know it, and it is only through Jesus Christ that I am saved. But I also know what the Bible says about good and evil, about right and wrong. And there is a clear definition of it

I never once attacked my sister. She has a disability, and that isn't her fault. But what I was worried about is that her struggles with day to day life may make her a prime target for CPS. I came here wondering about the general procedures in case my sister's school decides to call CPS once my sister's baby is born. I love my sister, and I don't want her child taken away from her, and if there's any way I can help her, if it is the Lord's will then I'll gladly do it. It is because I love her that I have to acknowledge that this lifestyle she has chosen to live is a sinful one, and for the sake of her and her baby she needs to turn away from it. Just as Jesus wants us all to turn away from the bondage of sin.

I also love my aunt, even though I don't agree with her life choices. You can still love someone and still say sin is wrong. And the Bible makes it clear about people who lead other people to sin. It's flat out called wickedness. It isn't good to teach younger people that committing sin is okay, and it's even worse to dump them after the fact. I wish my aunt weren't like that, not because I hate her, but because I know what a sinful lifestyle can do to a person.

You came here essentially saying that my dad was a bad father. I would like to let you know that my father cared for my mother when she was terminally ill, took care of her on her deathbed in our living room, and then continued to try and raise two daughters in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Was it always peachy keen? Of course not, no one is perfect. But it's a lot more than what most have to handle, and with the Lord's help my father did his absolute best. But he never encouraged us to sin, because he truly loved us. Other people have tried to convince me and my sister to sin, people in my own family, and it's wrong.

Nevertheless, I still pray for the Lord to help them. A big thing about the Pharisee in that parable. He boasted about himself, saying how good he was and how bad the tax collector was. The tax collector begged forgiveness, and it was he that left justified. I am nothing special, and I know that. But I'm still praying for the Lord to help my sister and her baby.

I instead offer another parable to you. The parable of the Prodigal Son. Luke 15:11-32

This is a very familiar situation to what my sister's been doing, and I pray that she finds her way home again. Because I love her and her baby. I never once blamed her for this, I'm just stating the facts of the situation. She's still very young, so I'm hoping that she can return to a Christian household that can help provide the care for her and her baby that she needs.