The Book of Acts

[Van]

Augustine on Unconditional Election

Thanks for the post.

1) When you see "you have not chosen Me" the verse is taken out of context, Jesus is referring to His choosing of His disciples. This verse has no application for God choosing individuals for salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 teach conditional election based on faith.

2) Next you see the claim that putting our faith in Christ is inconsistent with grace, which of course is the opposite of Romans 4:4-5.

OTOH, Acts teaches those who received (accepted and believed) his (Peter's) word were added to the church. But the book of Acts is not the only book that teaches everyone believing into Christ shall have eternal life.

 

[MartyF]

I meant a real Neoplatonist, like Plotinus or Porphyry. Not a guy who dabbled in Neoplatonism on his way from Manicheanism to Christianity.

If Augustine applied Neoplatonism to his Christianity, then show us from what source he pulled his Neoplatonist ideas on election.

Augustine ended at Neoplatonism.

Augustine being praised for teaching neoplatonism.

To Augustine Nebridius Sends Greeting.

1. Your letters I have great pleasure in keeping as carefully as my own eyes. For they are great, not indeed in length, but in the greatness of the subjects discussed in them, and in the great ability with which the truth in regard to these subjects is demonstrated. They shall bring to my ear the voice of Christ, and the teaching of Plato and of Plotinus.

Augustine praises the Platonists

33. The Platonists, however, who, amidst the errors of false philosophies assailing them at that time on all sides, rather concealed their own doctrine to be searched for than brought it into the light to be vilified, as they had no divine personage to command faith, began to exhibit and unfold the doctrines of Plato after the name of Christ had become widely known to the wondering and troubled kingdoms of this world. Then flourished at Rome the school of Plotinus, which had as scholars many men of great acuteness and ability. But some of them were corrupted by curious inquiries into magic, and others, recognising in the Lord Jesus Christ the impersonation of that essential and immutable Truth and Wisdom which they were endeavouring to reach, passed into His service. Thus the whole supremacy of authority and light of reason for regenerating and reforming the human race has been made to reside in the one saving Name, and in His one Church.

Augustine on the Platonic Ascent.

10. Wherefore, since it is our duty fully to enjoy the truth which lives unchangeably, and since the triune God takes counsel in this truth for the things which He has made, the soul must be purified that it may have power to perceive that light, and to rest in it when it is perceived. And let us look upon this purification as a kind of journey or voyage to our native land. For it is not by change of place that we can come nearer to Him who is in every place, but by the cultivation of pure desires and virtuous habits.

Augustine was a Neoplatonist exemplar.

 

[Rob_BW]

Augustine ended at Neoplatonism.

Augustine being praised for teaching neoplatonism.

To Augustine Nebridius Sends Greeting.

1. Your letters I have great pleasure in keeping as carefully as my own eyes. For they are great, not indeed in length, but in the greatness of the subjects discussed in them, and in the great ability with which the truth in regard to these subjects is demonstrated. They shall bring to my ear the voice of Christ, and the teaching of Plato and of Plotinus.

Augustine praises the Platonists

33. The Platonists, however, who, amidst the errors of false philosophies assailing them at that time on all sides, rather concealed their own doctrine to be searched for than brought it into the light to be vilified, as they had no divine personage to command faith, began to exhibit and unfold the doctrines of Plato after the name of Christ had become widely known to the wondering and troubled kingdoms of this world. Then flourished at Rome the school of Plotinus, which had as scholars many men of great acuteness and ability. But some of them were corrupted by curious inquiries into magic, and others, recognising in the Lord Jesus Christ the impersonation of that essential and immutable Truth and Wisdom which they were endeavouring to reach, passed into His service. Thus the whole supremacy of authority and light of reason for regenerating and reforming the human race has been made to reside in the one saving Name, and in His one Church.

Augustine on the Platonic Ascent.

10. Wherefore, since it is our duty fully to enjoy the truth which lives unchangeably, and since the triune God takes counsel in this truth for the things which He has made, the soul must be purified that it may have power to perceive that light, and to rest in it when it is perceived. And let us look upon this purification as a kind of journey or voyage to our native land. For it is not by change of place that we can come nearer to Him who is in every place, but by the cultivation of pure desires and virtuous habits.

Augustine was a Neoplatonist exemplar.

I'm afraid I don’t buy your argument. Augustine, whether he was a Neoplatonist or not, was a Christian.

Give us a pure Neoplatonist source on election.

 

[MartyF]

Thanks for the post.

1) When you see "you have not chosen Me" the verse is taken out of context, Jesus is referring to His choosing of His disciples. This verse has no application for God choosing individuals for salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 teach conditional election based on faith.

2) Next you see the claim that putting our faith in Christ is inconsistent with grace, which of course is the opposite of Romans 4:4-5.

OTOH, Acts teaches those who received (accepted and believed) his (Peter's) word were added to the church. But the book of Acts is not the only book that teaches everyone believing into Christ shall have eternal life.

Van,

I believe Augustine is a false teacher. I am not going to defend Augustine!

Is that clear enough?

Your comments don't pertain to me.

 

[Van]

Van,

I believe Augustine is a false teacher. I am not going to defend Augustine!

Is that clear enough?

Your comments don't pertain to me.

I believe Augustine was a false teacher. I understood that was your view too.

The "you" in my post was directed to the reader and not to you.
Is that clear enough?

 

[Reformed]

I'm afraid I don’t buy your argument. Augustine, whether he was a Neoplatonist or not, was a Christian.

Give us a pure Neoplatonist source on election.

I am not sure who you are engaging with but it seems like there is some serious trolling going on. Keep fighting the good fight.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Rob_BW]

I am not sure who you are engaging with but it seems like there is some serious trolling going on. Keep fighting the good fight.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I just see a distinction between "Augustine was a Neoplatonist who brought the Neoplatonist definition of election to his understanding of biblical election" and "Augustine the Neoplatonist developed his understanding of election from studying the Bible."

I am unaware of the pure, pagan Neoplatonists writing on election.

 

[Reformed]

I just see a distinction between "Augustine was a Neoplatonist who brought the Neoplatonist definition of election to his understanding of biblical election" and "Augustine the Neoplatonist developed his understanding of election from studying the Bible."

I am unaware of the pure, pagan Neoplatonists writing on election.

Oh, I am in agreement with you. My previous post was about your interlocutors. I am pretty sure I have certain trollers muted. I enjoyed the one-sided soliloquy. [emoji3]

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Yeshua1]

Similar to the Gospels, Acts is a narrative account of events told by a third party. It is not didactic* in nature like the Epistles. That does not mean that Acts is devoid of theology. We learn a lot about God in its pages. We learn the following in Acts:

• Christ's ascension and the promise of His visible return (1:9-11).
• Saul (Paul) was commissioned by Christ (9:1-19).
• The Gospel was commanded to be proclaimed to all people (Acts 10; 11:18).

While there is much to learn from the Book of Acts, it helps to keep in mind that Acts records events during a transitionary period between the Law and the inauguration of the New Covenant. There are events that occurred in Acts that were not normative for the New Testament church. For instance, there are no longer Apostles who can kill people for lying to the Holy Spirit as in Ananias and Saphira. Admittedly I am a Cessationist, so I believe the miracles and speaking in tongues are not normative for today. They were used during the early Apostolic age to establish the authority of the Apostle's message.

It is good practice not to develop doctrinal positions from Acts alone but to appeal to the whole written counsel of God, especially the didactic New Testament writings like those from Paul, Peter, James, and John.

I know many disagree with the points I have made in this post, and that is fine. I am interested in reading your comments.

*Intended to teach doctrine.

I believe Augustine was a false teacher. I understood that was your view too.

The "you" in my post was directed to the reader and not to you.
Is that clear enough?

Calvinism takes the teachings of Paul as regards to Justification and election, was he a false teacher also?

 

[Iconoclast]

This post is ignorant and profane. This is a shameful view of scripture and Paul's writings.

 

[Reformed]

This post is ignorant and profane. This is a shameful view of scripture and Paul's writings.

Brother, do not sweat it. It is a reflection of that poster's character. I was going to request a moderator delete it but it serves a better purpose by parading his shame for all to see.

 

[Reformed]

The ending of Acts leaves to the imagination what wonderful things God did with Paul's preaching of the kingdom to all who came to visit him. Even in bondage, the Gospel went forth in power and truth. And while Acts ends in Rome, the first epistle of the New Testament is a letter to the church that Paul longed to see. In some respects, it is a prequel to Acts 28.

 

[MartyF]

This post is ignorant and profane. This is a shameful view of scripture and Paul's writings.

Awesome! Someone else who thinks Calvinists’ interpretation of Romans 9 is ignorant and profane!

Which parts of the comic strip do you do you disagree with?

Go ahead! Gives me details! Or does it just blow all the Calvinist arguments to pieces?

 

[MartyF]

Brother, do not sweat it. It is a reflection of that poster's character. I was going to request a moderator delete it but it serves a better purpose by parading his shame for all to see.

Oh noes! The shame!

Are you saying that I shouldn’t have pasted a copy on the cover of my Bible?

Or maybe I shouldn’t have made it into a bumper sticker for my car!

You really wouldn’t like the banner I have between my trees in front of my house!

There are some things I’m ashamed of. But that comic strip will never be one of them!

 

[Rob_BW]

Awesome! Someone else who thinks Calvinists’ interpretation of Romans 9 is ignorant and profane!

Which parts of the comic strip do you do you disagree with?

Go ahead! Gives me details! Or does it just blow all the Calvinist arguments to pieces?

Friend, I believe that comic goes a bit further than disagreeing with the Calvinist interpretation of Romans. It appears to assume that the Calvinist interpretation of Romans is correct, and therefore the book of Romans is less than inspired .

 

[MartyF]

It appears to assume that the Calvinist interpretation of Romans is correct

A comic opposing the Calvinist interpretation of Romans “appears to assume that the Calvinist interpretation of Romans is correct” . . .

Nuts!

Stick a fork in it. Trump committed treason! Bring out the lethal injection!

The comic strip points out that one has to be deluded to assume the Calvinist interpretation of Romans 9 is the only one possible. And yes, it points out that Calvinists make Paul into a caricature to force their ideas onto Romans 9.

And once again, the reason why no one ever specifies something specific wrong with the comic is that it is an accurate representation of Calvinist beliefs. And that is why Calvinists hate it, I’m bringing their darkness to light.

 

[Rob_BW]

The comic strip points out that one has to be deluded to assume the Calvinist interpretation of Romans 9 is the only one possible. And yes, it points out that Calvinists make Paul into a caricature to force their ideas onto Romans 9.

No, it points to the Roman audience dismissing the book of Romans and Paul. By all means, if you want to poke fun at an opposing view, have at it. But that comic shows 2 people applying the Calvinist interpretation to Romans and dismissing it all as crazy.

 

[Rob_BW]

And of course, it was produced from an Open Theism website.

Gross...

 

[MartyF]

And of course, it was produced from an Open Theism website.

Gross...

 

[MartyF]

No, it points to the Roman audience dismissing the book of Romans and Paul. By all means, if you want to poke fun at an opposing view, have at it. But that comic shows 2 people applying the Calvinist interpretation to Romans and dismissing it all as crazy.

“That comic depicts 2 people dismissing the Calvinist interpretation to Romans as crazy.”

- corrected