Romans 11 Continuation

[agedman]

If you want to start a new thread, have at it. This thread is supposed to reflect the study of Romans 11.
Romans 11:4-5 commentary:
4: But from among the blood line descendants, God chose 7000 based on the condition of their faith in Him, for they had not bowed the knee to Baal.

5: At the time of Paul's writing of Romans, there had come to be a remnant, in the same way, or in other words according to God's gracious choice of believing Jews.

Romans 11 addresses the New Covenant and its impact on the OT promises.

However, your “commentary” is inaccurate, as others have repeatedly pointed out.

Romans 11 DOES NOT have your added word commentary!

It states:

But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
​

It does not say, “God chose 7000 based on the condition of their faith in Him,”

Your commentary is inconsistent with the presentation of the Scripture.

Bogus doctrine must always add to the Scripture or leave out what doesn’t conform to the bogus presentation.

 

[Van]

However, your “commentary” is inaccurate, as others have repeatedly pointed out.

Romans 11 DOES NOT have your added word commentary!

It states:

But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
​

It does not say, “God chose 7000 based on the condition of their faith in Him,”

Your commentary is inconsistent with the presentation of the Scripture.

Bogus doctrine must always add to the Scripture or leave out what doesn’t conform to the bogus presentation.

Apparently it is too hard for some to grasp, they did not bow the knee to Baal because they remained faithful to God. They claim that conclusion is not required as a logical necessity. Pay no attention to these fabricators of deflection. The truth is right in front of you.

 

[agedman]

Apparently it is too hard for some to grasp, they did not bow the knee to Baal because they remained faithful to God. They claim that conclusion is not required as a logical necessity. Pay no attention to these fabricators of deflection. The truth is right in front of you.

No, it is NOT, "They claim that conclusion is not required as a logical necessity," Rather it is the KNOW that such is not even a part of what is written and so no claim can be made.

YOU base your thinking upon some "logical necessity" that is formed from your own perspective and all matters must then be conformed to that same perspective. That is why you make the claim of "logical necessity."

However, if the Scriptures do not present that "logical necessity" then it is not in your authority that the Scriptures be conformed to your "logical necessity."

Again, are you posting that folks should not pay attention to you by writing:

"Pay no attention to these fabricators of deflection. The truth is right in front of you."
​

Clearly, all can see there is no need to rely upon "logical necessity" when the Scriptures present the facts.

 

[Particular]

Apparently it is too hard for some to grasp, they did not bow the knee to Baal because they remained faithful to God. They claim that conclusion is not required as a logical necessity. Pay no attention to these fabricators of deflection. The truth is right in front of you.

Apparently it is hard for you to grasp that the 7000 did not bow to Baal because God had chose them and gave them faith to believe in YHWH, not Baal.

Notice what God says:
"I have kept for myself 7000 men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."
What does Paul say immediately after this quote?
"So too, at the present time, there is a remnant, chosen by grace."
God is telling you and me that he chooses whom he wills. He gives grace to whom he chooses to give grace.
Notice that nowhere in the passage is faith the reason for God's choosing. No place in Romans 11:1-10 is faith the cause, which affects God's choice. Yet, you persist in the folly of your argument.

 

[Van]

Apparently it is hard for you to grasp that the 7000 did not bow to Baal because God had chose them and gave them faith to believe in YHWH, not Baal.

Notice what God says:
"I have kept for myself 7000 men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."
What does Paul say immediately after this quote?
"So too, at the present time, there is a remnant, chosen by grace."
God is telling you and me that he chooses whom he wills. He gives grace to whom he chooses to give grace.
Notice that nowhere in the passage is faith the reason for God's choosing. No place in Romans 11:1-10 is faith the cause, which affects God's choice. Yet, you persist in the folly of your argument.

Yet another ad hominem, and another denial of the obvious.

Note the pathetic rewrite, instead of God keeping those who have not bowed the knee, indicating a conditional election based on faith, the bogus assertion is God keeping those who have not bowed the knee to Baal, but also had turned aside from God. Twaddle.

The issue is God wills to choose those who put their faith in God and His Christ. However 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 teach God does choose those whose faith He credits as righteousness.

 

[Particular]

Yet another ad hominem, and another denial of the obvious.

Note the pathetic rewrite, instead of God keeping those who have not bowed the knee, indicating a conditional election based on faith, the bogus assertion is God keeping those who have not bowed the knee to Baal, but also had turned aside from God. Twaddle.

The issue is God wills to choose those who put their faith in God and His Christ. However 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 teach God does choose those whose faith He credits as righteousness.

False
I answered the passage.
I quoted the scripture.
You have no excuse.
You cannot pass it off with a flimsy excuse.
You deny what God says. Plain and simple.

 

[Van]

False
I answered the passage.
I quoted the scripture.
You have no excuse.
You cannot pass it off with a flimsy excuse.
You deny what God says. Plain and simple.

Just read the passage folks, just read it.

God kept 7000 who have not bowed the knee, therefore God choose those who remained faithful.

This thread is supposed to reflect the study of Romans 11.
Romans 11:4-5 commentary:
4: But from among the blood line descendants, God chose 7000 based on the condition of their faith in Him, for they had not bowed the knee to Baal.

5: At the time of Paul's writing of Romans, there had come to be a remnant, in the same way, or in other words according to God's gracious choice of believing Jews.

Romans 11 addresses the New Covenant and its impact on the OT promises.

 

[Particular]

Funny how a certain poster avoids the passage when it is placed squarely in front of him.

 

[Van]

Funny how a certain poster avoids the passage when it is placed squarely in front of him.

Yet another ad hominem, another deflection another waste of electrons.
The characteristic of those 7000 chosen was they have not bowed the knee to Baal. To claim they had bowed the knee to Baal based on this verse is utter nonsense, a total rewrite of the text. And the remnant came about in same way, thus also a gracious choice of believers.

 

[Particular]

Yet another ad hominem, another deflection another waste of electrons.
The characteristic of those 7000 chosen was they have not bowed the knee to Baal. To claim they had bowed the knee to Baal based on this verse is utter nonsense, a total rewrite of the text. And the remnant came about in same way, thus also a gracious choice of believers.

Yet another ad hominem, another deflection...

 

[percho]

Yet another ad hominem, another deflection another waste of electrons.
The characteristic of those 7000 chosen was they have not bowed the knee to Baal. To claim they had bowed the knee to Baal based on this verse is utter nonsense, a total rewrite of the text. And the remnant came about in same way, thus also a gracious choice of believers.

Van are the 7000 chosen because, they, believe or do the 7000, believe, because they are chosen?

but ye do not believe, for ye are not of my sheep, John 10:26

 

[Van]

Van are the 7000 chosen because, they, believe or do the 7000, believe, because they are chosen?

but ye do not believe, for ye are not of my sheep, John 10:26

This has been addressed, they were chosen because they had not bowed the knee to Baal. God kept for Himself 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal. If they had been unfaithful before they were chosen, scripture could not say they have not bowed the knee.

And note that the present remnant, came into being in the same way. Thus God chose believing Jews, a gracious choice.

Therefore Romans 11 provides two examples of God making a conditional choice based on faith from which faithfulness to God flowed.

Unconditional individual Election for salvation is found no where in scripture, it is a bogus doctrine. OTOH, both 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 teach God's gracious choice is through faith and devotion to God.

Scripture teaches not everyone is open to the gospel message, and those who are not "of My sheep" either do not understand the gospel message (Soil #1) or do not accept it fully, (Soils 2 and 3). But plenty of individuals are open to the gospel, that is why the fields are white for harvest and we need more laborers.

 

[Particular]

This has been addressed, they were chosen because they had not bowed the knee to Baal. God kept for Himself 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal. If they had been unfaithful before they were chosen, scripture could not say they have not bowed the knee.

And note that the present remnant, came into being in the same way. Thus God chose believing Jews, a gracious choice.

Therefore Romans 11 provides two examples of God making a conditional choice based on faith from which faithfulness to God flowed.

Unconditional individual Election for salvation is found no where in scripture, it is a bogus doctrine. OTOH, both 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5 teach God's gracious choice is through faith and devotion to God.

Scripture teaches not everyone is open to the gospel message, and those who are not "of My sheep" either do not understand the gospel message (Soil #1) or do not accept it fully, (Soils 2 and 3). But plenty of individuals are open to the gospel, that is why the fields are white for harvest and we need more laborers.

Nope.
They did not bow the knee because they were chosen. You are turning the verse into a past tense. God chose them beforehand and therefore they did not bow the knee.
It seems you think God had to be impressed with the 7000s self-righteousness and discipline before he chose them. Why would you require that?

 

[Van]

Nope.
They did not bow the knee because they were chosen. You are turning the verse into a past tense. God chose them beforehand and therefore they did not bow the knee.
It seems you think God had to be impressed with the 7000s self-righteousness and discipline before he chose them. Why would you require that?

As I said, at the end of the day, they defend their bogus views with ad hominems and absurdity.

God chose the 7000 who have not bowed the knee. When were the 7000 chosen? Before creation, or at the time? At the time. Note the remnant came to be at the present time, thus chosen at the present time. Therefore the 7000 were chosen at that time, thus a conditional election.

 

[Particular]

As I said, at the end of the day, they defend their bogus views with ad hominems and absurdity.

God chose the 7000 who have not bowed the knee. When were the 7000 chosen? Before creation, or at the time? At the time. Note the remnant came to be at the present time, thus chosen at the present time. Therefore the 7000 were chosen at that time, thus a conditional election.

Van, you don't defend. In the above comments you accuse those who directly address scripture. I'm done addressing your false statements.

 

[Van]

Van, you don't defend. In the above comments you accuse those who directly address scripture. I'm done addressing your false statements.

Yet another ad hominem, charging me with poor behavior.

Were the 7000 chosen in the same way as the remnant? Yes
Did the remnant come to be at the present time? Yes
Therefore, the 7000 that were chosen have not bowed the knee, thus a conditional election based on faith.

Note the effort to blur the indicated time of the elections!

 

[MB]

Yet another ad hominem, charging me with poor behavior.

Were the 7000 chosen in the same way as the remnant? Yes
Did the remnant come to be at the present time? Yes
Therefore, the 7000 that were chosen have not bowed the knee, thus a conditional election based on faith.

Note the effort to blur the indicated time of the elections!

Be thankful for the possibility that particular may actually mean "done addressing" your truthful statements.
MB

 

[Van]

Be thankful for the possibility that particular may actually mean "done addressing" your truthful statements.
MB

Yes, I was remiss in not thanking Particular for discussing Romans 11, even though my view and his differ.

 

[Van]

Scripture says:
(NASB Romans 11:4-5) 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.

1) Paul says the "remnant" came into being at the present time according to God" gracious choice. Therefore the choosing that produced the remnant occurred at the present time and not before the foundation of the world. This conclusion is a logical necessity.

2) Paul says the 7000 who have not bowed their knee to Baal were kept in the same way. Thus a gracious choice based on faith for they had not turned to Baal. When were they chosen? At the time they had not bowed a knee to Baal. This conclusion is also a logical necessity.

3) Thus Romans 11 provides two more examples of God's conditional elections based on faith, to go along with 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5.