OK, I have been delving into church history, and now I am ready to discuss something very troubling to me. I brought this subject up over a year ago on this board. I thought I was being too harsh on certain historical Christians after being rebuked. However, my studies since then have only convinced me more and more of my original position, which has expanded in scope. I bring it here to understand what my position now means.
What I speak of is that most Christians in history have been genuinely apostate including many big names in church history. I base this on the very simple idea that genuine believers in Jesus Christ do not die in their sin of persecuting their Brethren. I base that on a litany of scriptures.
What I have realized is that the Roman Catholic Church is an abomination. It has persecuted Brethren up until the 20th century and still views us as Purgatory bound for being outside of the "Mother Church."
However, to condemn Roman Catholicism I have found is to condemn most Christian movements. The magisterial Protestants led by Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer, and the King of England from which the Lutherans and Reformed and Anglicans are descended are too abominations. They murdered anyone who argued that baptism had to be done for believers, not infants. All of us on this board would be long dead if living as contemporaries of these men or the Roman Catholic Church in its disgusting "heyday."
But it doesn't even stop here. We can look farther back at the Imperial Church and, for instance, Augustine. The historical record is devastating to these people. They did abhorrent things to those they viewed as wrong on doctrine. Confiscating property and physical persecution. The bible says to simply disassociate ourselves from those who are false teachers. But really were those attacked really so clearly false? The Donatists are a great example of a group persecuted and defeated by Augustine and the Imperial Church but which are defended by the early proponents in believer's baptism. Whatever you believe about these movements, I personally have a hard time seeing them as faultless, certainly our response isn't persecution. The Eastern Orthodox Church are very little different from the Imperial Church, being their true successors in the Eastern Roman Empire.
I am ready to call the Imperial Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the very similar Eastern Orthodox Church, the Magisterial Protestants and any of their leaders who did not take a stand for what is right as outside the Faith. It seems Baptists are the enemies of these movements and leaders given our own history and beliefs.
What say you? I am ready for a discussion.
What I speak of is that most Christians in history have been genuinely apostate including many big names in church history. I base this on the very simple idea that genuine believers in Jesus Christ do not die in their sin of persecuting their Brethren. I base that on a litany of scriptures.
What I have realized is that the Roman Catholic Church is an abomination. It has persecuted Brethren up until the 20th century and still views us as Purgatory bound for being outside of the "Mother Church."
However, to condemn Roman Catholicism I have found is to condemn most Christian movements. The magisterial Protestants led by Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer, and the King of England from which the Lutherans and Reformed and Anglicans are descended are too abominations. They murdered anyone who argued that baptism had to be done for believers, not infants. All of us on this board would be long dead if living as contemporaries of these men or the Roman Catholic Church in its disgusting "heyday."
But it doesn't even stop here. We can look farther back at the Imperial Church and, for instance, Augustine. The historical record is devastating to these people. They did abhorrent things to those they viewed as wrong on doctrine. Confiscating property and physical persecution. The bible says to simply disassociate ourselves from those who are false teachers. But really were those attacked really so clearly false? The Donatists are a great example of a group persecuted and defeated by Augustine and the Imperial Church but which are defended by the early proponents in believer's baptism. Whatever you believe about these movements, I personally have a hard time seeing them as faultless, certainly our response isn't persecution. The Eastern Orthodox Church are very little different from the Imperial Church, being their true successors in the Eastern Roman Empire.
I am ready to call the Imperial Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the very similar Eastern Orthodox Church, the Magisterial Protestants and any of their leaders who did not take a stand for what is right as outside the Faith. It seems Baptists are the enemies of these movements and leaders given our own history and beliefs.
What say you? I am ready for a discussion.
