Jesus Christ was Born of Woman . . . fact or fiction?

[JoeT]

It's in the Apostles Creed, Athanasian Creed,Nicene Creed, all of which are the basis for all "Christian Creeds" Jesus Christ was born of woman. They say of Jesus Christ that essentially "for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man"

Is it one of those embarrassing facts that is somehow offense?

JoeT

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Leaving aside the creeds, yes Jesus Christ was born of a virgin woman.

 

[JoeT]

Baptism removes all sin, including original sin which is the deprivation of Adam's original justice. We contract both the gilt and the punishment for Adam and Eve's singular act in our birth. Jesus Christ was like us in every way except sin [Cf. Hebrews 4:15].

If indeed the "Word was made flesh" just like us, born of woman just like us as you profess, and became a man just like us, and lived just like us and doesn't have sin, how does it occur that Jesus is without sin unless Mary was immaculate?

JoeT

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I and others hold that the curse of sin was passed down through the male line. As His conception was a work of God. The line of Adam's curse was broken.

 

[JoeT]

I and others hold that the curse of sin was passed down through the male line. As His conception was a work of God. The line of Adam's curse was broken.

You would have God 're-make' man sin, then condemn him for sinning? Even still, if God made man's flesh sinful then why isn't Jesus Christ born of sin.

The God you imagine then condemns man for one sin by making that man essentially sin. Then tells him to go and not sin? I could tell you that wouldn't work out. I think, I know there's a better way and in that way Mary plays a pivotal role.

JoeT

 

[Particular]

Jesus had no dna from Mary, nor from Joseph.

Philippians 2:5-8
...though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men.

And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Just as the first Adam had no dna from anyone, so the second Adam was perfect in every way.
Mary's placenta fed God as God grew in her womb, but there was nothing from Mary's code in Jesus.

God emptied himself and took the form of human. This was not difficult for God, the Creator of all humanity.

 

[37818]

I and others hold that the curse of sin was passed down through the male line. As His conception was a work of God. The line of Adam's curse was broken.

I hold the divine knowledge of good and evil is passed down being of human descent from Adam and Eve. Jesus being fully human inherited that knowledge of good and evil from His mother. But because that divine knowledge was also His as Creator He would not sin (John 1:10; Genesis 3:22; Hebrews 4:15; Mark 10:18). The truth of Genesis 3:22 is the fundamental reason for mankinds sinful nature. God is infinite good unaffected by evil. Good man before that knowledge good and evil was only a finite good being.

 

[37818]

New Jesus had no dna from Mary, . . .

Then His so called human descent being a son of David would be false. Mark 12:37, ". . . David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? . . ."

 

[Particular]

Then His so called human descent being a son of David would be false. Mark 12:37, ". . . David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? . . ."

No. He was born of Mary. His earthly father was Joseph. His lineage was traced through Joseph, even though we know there is no dna from Joseph.

 

[JoeT]

Jesus had no dna from Mary, nor from Joseph.

Philippians 2:5-8
...though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men.

And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Just as the first Adam had no dna from anyone, so the second Adam was perfect in every way.
Mary's placenta fed God as God grew in her womb, but there was nothing from Mary's code in Jesus.

God emptied himself and took the form of human. This was not difficult for God, the Creator of all humanity.

The glory of God isn't being exchanged, it's being received the same way the Mother of God received Him, humbly, worthily, and undeservingly.

It is the DNA that defines humanity in the physical world from all other creatures. Mankind was created in such a way that it too can create life in a covenant union. A DNA-less man is no man at all and cannot beget life. The union between man and woman is the continuance of our species is much like the covenant union between God and man; the intent of which is to create everlasting life. We were created in a manner whereby the spark of life from the father forms our prodigy in the womb of the mother. This is the sole function of the human male, insemination, a spark of life. No genetic material is transferred from the male to the ovaries. The male only initiates growth adding genetic direction. It is the flesh itself in the form of embryonic cells that comes from the mother. The spark starts generation of cells form living flesh in the womb. The resulting child is wholly the flesh of its mother. The child fills its veins with blood generated wholly within him; there is no transfer of blood from the mother to the child. In like manner we are blessed with Christ, begotten not made. This is the nature of man in being born of woman

Jesus Christ, “who being the brightness of [God's] glory, and the figure of [God's] substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power“ [Hebrews 1:3] God provides the spark of life necessary to generate life in the womb of Mary, that life being the personification of His Wisdom [the the express image, and most perfect resemblance] perfectly joined to the flesh of Mary. [Cf. John 1:1]. The blood in the Christ Child is generated wholly within Him as most literally the Blood of life. Wherefore, He say’s ‘eat, this is my body’ and ‘drink, this is my blood’ to perfectly join the faithful with the substance of Life Itself, Jesus Christ. Consuming this food we become alive as ‘adopted sons of God’ with Christ in us. The Person of Christ found in Mary’s womb has literally filled her, a creature, with the Divine Living Grace.

Wholly divine and wholly human from conception, Christ is said to suffer the entire His humanity – which includes being born as any human is born, not made. This is the glory he offers those worthy to receive Him. “Take this,” Christ said indicating the bread “this IS my Body”. “Take this,” Christ said indicating the wine, “this is my Blood” the blood of the ‘everlasting covenant’. Received symbolically, you receive a symbol of a covenant - you can liken it to the symbol of freedom the US Constitution has become under the Obama Administration - empty words on paper. Or, conversely as Catholics receive the reality of His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity and receive the reality of eternal life.

All life is the glory of God. Eternal life is to abide in Christ and for Christ to abide in us. No joke, no symbols, no smoke, no mirrors - rather stark reality.

In opposition you offer voiding the DNA and by magic maintaining His humanity? If successful that would make you a maker of gods. Rather in so doing you void His humanity or His Divinity, without both uniquely and inseparably joined you have nothing.

JoeT

 

[Adonia]

Jesus had no dna from Mary, nor from Joseph.

Philippians 2:5-8
...though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,being born in the likeness of men.

And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Just as the first Adam had no dna from anyone, so the second Adam was perfect in every way.
Mary's placenta fed God as God grew in her womb, but there was nothing from Mary's code in Jesus.

God emptied himself and took the form of human. This was not difficult for God, the Creator of all humanity.

No DNA from Mary? Please, that defies common sense. He was born physically through a human, so her blood ran through His veins - it could be no other way.

 

[Rob_BW]

Baptism removes all sin, including original sin which is the deprivation of Adam's original justice. We contract both the gilt and the punishment for Adam and Eve's singular act in our birth. Jesus Christ was like us in every way except sin [Cf. Hebrews 4:15].

If indeed the "Word was made flesh" just like us, born of woman just like us as you profess, and became a man just like us, and lived just like us and doesn't have sin, how does it occur that Jesus is without sin unless Mary was immaculate?

JoeT

Then how was Mary made immaculate? Were both her parent made immaculate? Her grandparents? And ad infinitum...?

 

[JoeT]

Then how was Mary made immaculate? Were both her parent made immaculate? Her grandparents? And ad infinitum...?

Mary receives her savific grace much the same way you receive grace of salvation. Mary however received a singular grace of salvation from God at the very instance of her conception which preserves her free of all stain of sin. The same way your salvific justification received in Baptism is independent on your parental lineage, Mary's grace comes from the merits of Jesus Christ.

JoeT

 

[Revmitchell]

Baptism removes all sin, including original sin which is the deprivation of Adam's original justice. We contract both the gilt and the punishment for Adam and Eve's singular act in our birth. Jesus Christ was like us in every way except sin [Cf. Hebrews 4:15].

Uh no Baptism does not remove anything. That is not its purpose. Its purpose, as outlined in Romans 6 is a testimony to all who would see that we identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If indeed the "Word was made flesh" just like us, born of woman just like us as you profess, and became a man just like us, and lived just like us and doesn't have sin, how does it occur that Jesus is without sin unless Mary was immaculate?

JoeT

Born of a woman but that does not negate the Holy Spirits role in this, neither does it negate the nature of Christ both before and after the incarnation. The sinful nature of Mary does not need to be an issue when God is involved. The Catholic church is trying to explain something that is not explained in scripture.

 

[Particular]

The glory of God isn't being exchanged, it's being received the same way the Mother of God received Him, humbly, worthily, and undeservingly.

It is the DNA that defines humanity in the physical world from all other creatures. Mankind was created in such a way that it too can create life in a covenant union. A DNA-less man is no man at all and cannot beget life. The union between man and woman is the continuance of our species is much like the covenant union between God and man; the intent of which is to create everlasting life. We were created in a manner whereby the spark of life from the father forms our prodigy in the womb of the mother. This is the sole function of the human male, insemination, a spark of life. No genetic material is transferred from the male to the ovaries. The male only initiates growth adding genetic direction. It is the flesh itself in the form of embryonic cells that comes from the mother. The spark starts generation of cells form living flesh in the womb. The resulting child is wholly the flesh of its mother. The child fills its veins with blood generated wholly within him; there is no transfer of blood from the mother to the child. In like manner we are blessed with Christ, begotten not made. This is the nature of man in being born of woman

Jesus Christ, “who being the brightness of [God's] glory, and the figure of [God's] substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power“ [Hebrews 1:3] God provides the spark of life necessary to generate life in the womb of Mary, that life being the personification of His Wisdom [the the express image, and most perfect resemblance] perfectly joined to the flesh of Mary. [Cf. John 1:1]. The blood in the Christ Child is generated wholly within Him as most literally the Blood of life. Wherefore, He say’s ‘eat, this is my body’ and ‘drink, this is my blood’ to perfectly join the faithful with the substance of Life Itself, Jesus Christ. Consuming this food we become alive as ‘adopted sons of God’ with Christ in us. The Person of Christ found in Mary’s womb has literally filled her, a creature, with the Divine Living Grace.

Wholly divine and wholly human from conception, Christ is said to suffer the entire His humanity – which includes being born as any human is born, not made. This is the glory he offers those worthy to receive Him. “Take this,” Christ said indicating the bread “this IS my Body”. “Take this,” Christ said indicating the wine, “this is my Blood” the blood of the ‘everlasting covenant’. Received symbolically, you receive a symbol of a covenant - you can liken it to the symbol of freedom the US Constitution has become under the Obama Administration - empty words on paper. Or, conversely as Catholics receive the reality of His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity and receive the reality of eternal life.

All life is the glory of God. Eternal life is to abide in Christ and for Christ to abide in us. No joke, no symbols, no smoke, no mirrors - rather stark reality.

In opposition you offer voiding the DNA and by magic maintaining His humanity? If successful that would make you a maker of gods. Rather in so doing you void His humanity or His Divinity, without both uniquely and inseparably joined you have nothing.

JoeT

God made himself the next Adam. Mary was blessed to host God in her womb for 9 months while God grew from a human embryo to the infant stage.
But, there is no host dna in Jesus, just as there was no host dna in Adam. God didn't need it to become human.
Plus, it removes the Mary worship that you are doing.

 

[Particular]

Mary receives her savific grace much the same way you receive grace of salvation. Mary however received a singular grace of salvation from God at the very instance of her conception which preserves her free of all stain of sin. The same way your salvific justification received in Baptism is independent on your parental lineage, Mary's grace comes from the merits of Jesus Christ.

JoeT

False teaching 101.

 

[Particular]

No DNA from Mary? Please, that defies common sense. He was born physically through a human, so her blood ran through His veins - it could be no other way.

That...is why it is a miracle. Just like Sarah bearing Isaac in her old age, it defies common sense. Just like a virgin being pregnant, it defies common sense.
For Jesus to be perfect, he must be a man, created like Adam, with no sin. Mary is a sinner. Her very nature is corrupt. God was not corrupted by Mary's dna. God is perfect, as was the first Adam. This is why Jesus is called the second Adam. But, Jesus passes through Satan's temptations without sinning.
Sorry, Mary doesn't get worshipped.

 

[Revmitchell]

Mary receives her savific grace much the same way you receive grace of salvation. Mary however received a singular grace of salvation from God at the very instance of her conception which preserves her free of all stain of sin. The same way your salvific justification received in Baptism is independent on your parental lineage, Mary's grace comes from the merits of Jesus Christ.

JoeT

Chapter and verse please

 

[37818]

No. He was born of Mary. His earthly father was Joseph. His lineage was traced through Joseph, even though we know there is no dna from Joseph.

There are two geneologies. The legal geneology through Joseph, Matthew 1. And Jesus' human geneology through His mother, Luke 3:23-38.

Matthew 1:6, ". . . And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon . . . ."

Luke 3:31-32, ". . . Nathan, which was [the son] of David, Which was [the son] of Jesse, . . ."

Joseph was a descendant of Solomon.
Mary was a descendant of Nathan.

Joseph "was [the son (in law)] of Heli." -- Luke 3:23.

 

[Particular]

There are two geneologies. The legal geneology through Joseph, Matthew 1. And Jesus' human geneology through His mother, Luke 3:23-38.

Matthew 1:6, ". . . And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon . . . ."

Luke 3:31-32, ". . . Nathan, which was [the son] of David, Which was [the son] of Jesse, . . ."

Joseph was a descendant of Solomon.
Mary was a descendant of Nathan.

Joseph "was [the son (in law)] of Heli." -- Luke 3:23.

They are both legal geneology's. Jesus father is God and he declares this truth throughout the gospels. He never refers to his mother, except when he is actually in dialogue with her.
I understand the traditional teaching passed down through generations. But, that teaching struggles to create a means by which Mary's sin nature doesn't flaw Jesus. The argument is, in my opinion, convoluted. Jesus does not need either Joseph or Mary's dna in order to be fully human, just as Adam did not need anyone's dna to be fully human.