Apparitions of Mary at Medjugorje

Even in my Catholic days i was suspect of these "miracles" the Catholic Church sprinkled with holy water.

Also the charismatic church (so called).

What impresses me is the cash flow of the charismatic church, odd. something seems amiss.

surfing the cloud with ROKU I ran across Jim Bakker - sad - he is out of prison, pushing a line of health products.
but his faith in Jesus Christ sees intact.

 

No you don't.

OK. Show us where in "Jesus' healing techniques" we're told that a pagan splashing water that's been "blessed" by another pagan heals somebody or drives demons out.

The Westboro Baptist Church is neither "Baptist", nor a church.

Christ has already redeemed me. There are sources outside your little video by which we can know the truth. That he (or I) is not interested in watching it has nothing to do with his integrity or understanding of the topic. So, congratulations! You've managed to commit three logical fallacies (question begging, appeal to authority, and poisoning the well) in one sentence!

 

I agree. Most Catholics don't even believe these things. Catholics are deceived, but they're not stupid (the Catholics on CARM and a couple here excepted).

 

Not snide at all DW just honest. if you see snide in my post then you supplied your own.
i will admit that i am a CYNIC not just with Catholicism but any form of religiosity that reaps silver and gold from those who can least afford it.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I don't need your opportunity at redemption by watching your video, Jesus has already redeemed me.

 

Apparitions of Mary remind me of King Saul. The Roman Catholic Church seems to be in relationship with the witch of Endor.

Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” And Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? The Lord has done to you as he spoke by me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David.
~ 1 Samuel 28:7-17

 

I have never seen a snide post from you

 

ive been tempted - sometimes yielded

 

I don't believe this Medjugorje business, but the appearance at Fatima is something different. There is a long history of mysticism within the Catholic Church and these "visits" to people like Sister Faustina (Divine Mercy) are up to the individual Catholic to accept or not. I think things like the stigmata are strong signs sent by God to encourage the faithful.

 

"The Westboro Baptist Church is neither "Baptist", nor a church."

Extremist Hyper Calvinist are the most brilliant minded protestants of all. Having taking everything to their LOGICAL, CONSISTENT CONCLUSION.

Like a Nazi who does what he is told.


The Baptist Church is now CALVINIST. The traditional Baptist has been infiltrated and betrayed.

They were naive and figure a Calvinist version of God is better then a Catholic one.

They couldn't from the ground up start with what they are......it had to be done wolf in sheep clothing. Converting Christians rather than ever picking up non Christians.

 

ALL mysticism within religion is false & man-made. That includes the Fatima visions and the stigmata are wasily produced with a little makeup.

How good can illusionists be? In a 1963 movie called "Ecco", I saw a German illusionist have his cute young lady assistant lie on a table that stood on 4 legs, with full visibility beneath it to the other side of it. The illusionist holding a saw, then stood behind the table & had the assistant flex her arm & fingers on her side that was toward the audience. He then "put her into a trance" & reached across her, took her by the hand, & appeared to have sawed her arm off just below her sleeve. (She was wearing a white, short-sleeve dress.) He held up her arm for the audience to see. He then placed the arm back on the stump he'd cut it from, rubbed a white powder over where he'd sawed it off, "awoke her from the trance", & had her again flex the arm & fingers he'd supposedly sawed off & replaced. The narrator explained the whole thing was an illusion ! But it had fooled a lotta people. The table the lady laid on was only an inch or so thick, with full visibility under and beyond it. Her dress was tight, with no bulges showing on it before & after the stunt.

How easy it would be for a good illusionist to produce the "stigmata"! Jesus never said such a thing would exist. HIS sacrifice was once for all; He did NOT ask anyone else to go thru what HE did !

 

I'm surprised some sects haven't just removed all traces of Mary from their pages of Scripture. The disdain towards her or the trivializing of her is really quite remarkable. I find many on forums such as these will go so far as to abandon Trinitarian and Christological orthodoxy all for the sake of denying Mary's role in salvation history. A recent example was a thread just closed in the past week or so whereby a Protestant denied Mary actually conceived and gave the Logos a human nature. It seems that poster is the last surviving Valentinian.

As for Medjugorje and the OP, I tend to shy away from unapproved sites. At the same time, I know several people who have experienced dramatic conversions as a result of Medjugorje.

Since we are on the cusp of Advent, I always like to point out the something about the infancy narratives in St. Luke's and St. Matthew's Gospels worth pondering. Given these accounts were written after the actual occurrence of the event, along with the fact that neither St. Luke nor St. Matthew were present when they occurred, the only possible source for these narratives was Mary herself, the great Mother of God.

"But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart."

 

For what purpose would a priest like Padre Pio fake the stigmata? Or the 3 children of Fatima whose claims cost them much troubles?

Quite correct, Jesus would not ask such a thing of anyone else - sometimes things like the stigmata just happen in order that others who have some trouble with faith alone will see Christ's wounds on another person and thus be drawn to Him.

With God the possibilities are endless and the many ways in which He works is a mystery, with you however the possibilities of God are limited.

 

The Baptist members of this site have nothing resembling a consensus on text criticism. So critiquing the entire site for not providing academic sources on a view few of us holds is laughable.

But if we want to talk about integrity, let me ask a question. You claim to be a pentecostal Methodist, so how have the members of your local congregation responded to your Catholic and Marian views?

Please correct me if I mis-remembered your affiliation.

 

John of Japan, McCree79, Logos1560, and plenty of others have reviewed and cited numerous academic sources. Your post says nothing of their arguments, merely an accusation that they haven't read any scholarly work.

As for your Methodism, I think back to John Wesley's "Popery Calmly Considered," section 3:

4. The worship which the Romanists give to the Virgin Mary, is beyond what they give either to angels or other saints. In one of their public offices, they say, “Command thy Son by the right of a mother.” They pray to her to “loose the bands of the guilty, to bring light to the blind, to make them mild and chaste, and to cause their hearts to burn in love to Christ.” Such worship as this cannot be given to any creature, without gross, palpable idolatry. We honor the blessed Virgin as the mother of the Holy Jesus, and as a person of eminent piety: But we dare not give worship to her; for it belongs to God alone. Meantime, we cannot but wonder at the application which the Church of Rome continually makes to her, of whose acts on earth the Scripture so sparingly speaks. And it says nothing of what they so pompously celebrate, her assumption into heaven, or of her exaltation to a throne above angels or archangels. It says nothing of her being “the mother of grace and mercy, the Queen of the gate of heaven,” or of her “power to destroy all heresies,” and bring “all things to all.”

 

Either a thing is true or not true. Christianity stands or falls with the Christian New Testament.

What constitutes the written word of God was either God's word when written or never was.

Genuine Christians know God. The religious and yet lost do not.