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If anyone care about facts.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Normally, I'd be glad to.

    The problem is, we see the Scriptures that actually define the doctrines very differently.
    Apparently, the words on the page don't mean the same thing to you that they do to me.

    Therefore, I see no further need to discuss ideas and thoughts, because the word of God is all that should be being engaged, not ideas and not thoughts that may potentially wander from it.

    May God bless you.
     
    #21 Dave G, Nov 21, 2019
  2. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Translation...you want it ignored...…...

    You want conversation shut down, and you refuse to discuss the points in the video clearly represented by a respectable scholar.

    If I repost a link to it, a Calvinist Administrator will remove the link so, it's impossible to debate the issue.
     
    #22 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  3. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    #23 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Translation:

    I think that what you're looking for is a fight, sir.
    But I'm not going to give you one.;)
    With respect,
    I don't want conversation shut down.

    But to me, when Leighton Flowers can present his position against what is commonly called "Calvinism" in a way that deals directly with the text, line by line and recognizing the very words on the page,

    And not offer anything like what I've seen him do before...which is to basically tell people what certain passages do not mean instead of telling them, with confidence, what they do mean...Then I see no reason for anyone to engage his videos.

    If you're convinced that he's right, then that is your prerogative.

    What I see him doing is giving people a list of possible "interpretations" that are more acceptable, to him, than "Calvinism's" explanations...without telling them what the passages do mean, by actually and thoroughly engaging the very words on the page.

    That is why I don't generally comment on what Leighton Flowers has to say.


    I wish you well, sir.
     
    #24 Dave G, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  5. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The title tells me it is worthless to watch. I have only read a couple quotes from Augustine. Almost all have to do with the concept of a just war.
    My understanding of soteriology comes from scripture, not a dude lounging around North Africa.
     
    #25 Particular, Nov 21, 2019
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Please note folks I just came home from a hospital procedure to this thread. I have edited the inflammatory title and OP. I further deleted posts of a provocative nature and those which discussed admin business in an open forum. FWIW, I am a Historic Northern Regular Baptist who holds to the [1833] New Hampshire Confession. Make of that what you want.
     
    #26 Squire Robertsson, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  7. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Not with you, I don't consider you worth fighting with.
    Fine, I don't care one whit what you think about anything.
    I don't want your respect.
    I don't respect you one iota, I don't want you to respect me.
    That's not the topic of this thread......the topic is why Augustine poisoned minds for a million years with gnostic Philosophy....
    If that's not something you want to talk about, feel free to go pound sand and not engage in my thread.....
    Because this thread isn't about the genius of what Dave thinks the Bible teaches....
    I didn't ask that.....it amazes me that you think I give a whit what you think the Bible teaches...
    I absolutely do not, and would never start a thread which encouraged you to engage in that discussion.
    This set of sentences is incoherent.
    I don't care what you wish, and this thread isn't about your pretensions of goodness, it's about the gnostic heresy as presented in the video, if you aren't interested in it....
    Stop responding to the thread.[/QUOTE]
     
    #27 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    As I see it,
    The topic is, why you seem to hate what you call "Calvinism" so much.

    I call "TULIP" the truth of Scripture.
    I've edited them so they can be read a bit clearer.
    This is a forum.

    I don't need your permission to respond to threads sir.
    So long as I follow the rules, I'm welcome to post my thoughts, as I see it.

    As it is, you seem so hostile right now to anything that may be offered, I think it wise not to respond to any of your threads if I can help it.
    In fact, I think the best thing that can be done is for us to put each other on "ignore".


    May God bless you in your studies and in your daily life.
     
    #28 Dave G, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  9. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but this isn't about what Dave thinks the Bible says....it's about the Gnosticism that Augustine infected the Church with, if that's not what you want to talk about....then why respond?
    If you aren't interested in the O.P....why respond at all?

    Is it because you assume we are all on tenter-hooks desperate to find out what Dave thinks the Bible "Really" has to say?
    We are not....
    You are welcome to start a thread that no one will respond to about that.
     
    #29 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Is there a particular reason why you are so incensed tonight?
    I'm just curious, sir.

    I wasn't aware that I'd done anything to offend you, personally.
     
    #30 Dave G, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  11. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    No, I'm actually not particularly incensed at all... you do not offend me.
    You are not actually responding to the actual topic of the thread....so, I don't want you to change it's nature.
    The thread is about Historical Theology, so, I don't want that changed.
    But, I don't actually find you offensive, and you don't "incense" (isn't it great that the English language is so expressive that you could use an adjective about the sense of smell to imply anger???)..,me.

    I just don't want this thread off course, it isn't whether Calvinism (so-called) is right or wrong, it's about Historical Theology.

    If that isn't what you want to talk about, or the content of the video I posted, it's fair for me to invite you to not engage in the topic of the O.P. if you won't engage right?
     
    #31 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  12. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    So...Augustine infected the Roman Catholic Church with gnosticism, according to a YouTube prognosticator. Do you think the Roman Catholic Church is gnostic in its belief? Why or why not?
     
    #32 Particular, Nov 21, 2019
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  13. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    I wish to engage with the content of the video....
    If you sish to discuss that, then, by all means, I don't want the discussion to go beyond that.
     
    #33 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  14. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    The gentlemen who gave us a synopsis of his scholarly work is not a "YouTube prognosticator"....he was answering questions by your "you-tube prognosticator" about his work, the contents of which was a scholarly treatment of Augustine's Philosophy and how it effected his reading of Scripture.
    His books do not sell at an average Barnes and Noble but, like most Scholarly literature, are quite expensive and sell for absurd amounts.....
    He (being an authority on the topic) gave us only one scholarly and well-researched opinion about the issue which you refuse to engage with...………….

    as expected.
     
    #34 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  15. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    verb
    verb: incense; 3rd person present: incenses; past tense: incensed; past participle: incensed; gerund or present participle: incensing
    make (someone) very angry.
    "she was incensed by the accusations"


    I believe I had it correct when I made the post, sir.
    I do appreciate your observation, though.

    Completely fair, and I agree.

    With that, I take my leave of your thread.

    Again, I wish you well.:)
     
    #35 Dave G, Nov 21, 2019
  16. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I was commenting about how much I love the expressiveness of the English language.
    Sure you did...."Correct" isn't even the issue...
    English is marvelously expressive in it's ability to express anger by tapping into a sense of smell....
    Hebrew does that as well actually.

    Long story....I wasn't arguing with you, I was honestly just celebrating language
    And I think the English language is one of the best the world had ever known.
     
    #36 HeirofSalvation, Nov 21, 2019
  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    I haven't heard of him. Does he make the Arminian circuit?
     
    #37 Particular, Nov 21, 2019
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    :Roflmao

    I became a Calvinist by reading the Bible to sort through the convoluted theological rat's nest of the various Pentecostal/RLDS/Charismaniacal claptrap that was my childhood.

    Not by reading Augustine, nor Calvin, nor Spurgeon.

    I remember clearly the moment I understood. Working my summer job as a groundskeeper at a local resort, Paul's testimony of Christ's words to him exploded in my mind: 'My grace is sufficient for thee.'

    Calvinism is the Gospel. Aptly titled the Doctrines of Grace--the power of God unto salvation.
     
    #38 Aaron, Nov 21, 2019
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  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    #39 Aaron, Nov 21, 2019
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  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    BTW, do you know what every 'Christian' cult has in common? Free will.
     
    #40 Aaron, Nov 21, 2019
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