Apparitions of Mary at Medjugorje

[Walter]

Either a thing is true or not true. Christianity stands or falls with the Christian New Testament.

What constitutes the written word of God was either God's word when written or never was.

Genuine Christians know God. The religious and yet lost do not.

It is absolutely true. But, WHO decided the 27 books were the ones out of all the spurious ones? What church did the Holy Spirit use to determine that those 27 books were canonical? Certainly not a group of Baptist. Historians make it clear. Take the blinders off.

 

[Scarlett O.]

It is absolutely true. But, WHO decided the 27 books were the ones out of all the spurious ones? What church did the Holy Spirit use to determine that those 27 books were canonical? Certainly not a group of Baptist. Historians make it clear. Take the blinders off.

It doesn't matter "who" decided. What matters is that books that are in contradiction of the Bible are not part of the Bible.

The devil is a counterfeit. Heresy began very early. Before the New Testament was even written.

I've read the spurious ones. Many of them. When one is quite familiar with the Bible, the fact that they do not belong in the Bible shines clear.

So it appears, to me, that God decided the canon. Why do I say that? Because every time I read of someone embracing one or some of these other books, if I have read it, I can tell them why them why it does not belong. It isn't difficult.

 

[Walter]

It doesn't matter "who" decided. What matters is that books that are in contradiction of the Bible are not part of the Bible.



The devil is a counterfeit. Heresy began very early. Before the New Testament was even written.

I've read the spurious ones. Many of them. When one is quite familiar with the Bible, the fact that they do not belong in the Bible shines clear.

So it appears, to me, that God decided the canon. Why do I say that? Because every time I read of someone embracing one or some of these other books, if I have read it, I can tell them why them why it does not belong. It isn't difficult.

Ok, just what it's so obvious in the letters of st. Ignatius of Antioch that tell you they did not belong in Scripture ? I know why pope Damascus and the church Council decided they didn't belong in the Canon. Could you have come to the same determination that they did based on just a knowledge of Old Testament scripture?

 

[37818]

It is absolutely true. But, WHO decided the 27 books were the ones out of all the spurious ones?

The Holy Scriptures where Holy Scriptures when they where wtitten, and where directly given to God's people. There was no secret to the people of God who received them.

What church did the Holy Spirit use to determine that those 27 books were canonical?

Those 27 books did not come into existence all at once. But as they were wrtten and presented to a respective Church. And over a time were copied and shared with sister churches. And publicly read.

Certainly not a group of Baptist. Historians make it clear. Take the blinders off.

"Baptist" is a post reformation name given New Testament Christians. The verious New Testament groups since at least the 4th century had been called "Ana-Baptists" by irregular churhes

 

[37818]

. . . just what it's so obvious in the letters of st. Ignatius of Antioch that tell you they did not belong in Scripture ?

There is no evidence those so-called letters ascribed to Ignatius of Antioch even existed before the third century.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Ok, just what it's so obvious in the letters of st. Ignatius of Antioch that tell you they did not belong in Scripture ? I know why pope Damascus and the church Council decided they didn't belong in the Canon. Could you have come to the same determination that they did based on just a knowledge of Old Testament scripture?

I have not read those. Shoot me a link and I will.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I know my remarks are going to step on a lot of toes. But this is Baptist Board so live with it.
I hold that the appearances of Mary are manifestations of the demonic. I put zero trust in the authentications of the RCC.

 

[37818]

I have not read those. Shoot me a link and I will.

Here is from a third party BLOGer.

The epistles of Ignatius: are they all forgeries? Dating & authorship of Ignatius' epistles and about the early bishops

 

[Walter]

There is no evidence those so-called letters ascribed to Ignatius of Antioch even existed before the third century.

Sure there is! How Do We Know Ignatius’ Letters are Genuine? – Shameless Popery

 

[37818]

Sure there is! How Do We Know Ignatius’ Letters are Genuine? – Shameless Popery

A claim is not proof. "St. Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of the Apostle John, wrote a series of letters somewhere about c. 107-110, . . ." That site presented no evidence to justify that interpetation for that date.

 

[Walter]

I know my remarks are going to step on a lot of toes. But this is Baptist Board so live with it.
I hold that the appearances of Mary are manifestations of the demonic. I put zero trust in the authentications of the RCC.

Demons cannot perform supernatural miracles because they cannot create. Demons rely on natural phenomena to present the appearance of a miracle, which is what takes place during many false Marian apparitions. Supernatural miracles, such as the immediate drying of a crowd of 70,000 witnesses after a deluge at Fatima is a supernatural miracle that only God can do. Bone and muscle tissue that suddenly heals and reconstitutes itself is a supernatural miracle that only God can do. People regaining their sight while their retinas are still detached constitutes a supernatural miracle. Demons cannot accomplish any of these.

Someone being cured of a bad back is likely not a supernatural miracle. Someone walking with a shattered spinal cord is.

Thus, those who come to Jesus and proclaim that they are performing miracles, are automatic liars, because true miracles can only be performed by God THROUGH a vessel such as Peter, or the Virgin Mary, The Virgin Mary has indeed appeared in many places, and has indeed been the conduit through which God has performed many miracles.

 

[37818]

There is no evidence those so-called letters ascribed to Ignatius of Antioch even existed before the third century.

The Ignatian Epistles and their Claims. The External Evidence.

 

[Particular]

Demons cannot perform supernatural miracles because they cannot create. Demons rely on natural phenomena to present the appearance of a miracle, which is what takes place during many false Marian apparitions. Supernatural miracles, such as the immediate drying of a crowd of 70,000 witnesses after a deluge at Fatima is a supernatural miracle that only God can do. Bone and muscle tissue that suddenly heals and reconstitutes itself is a supernatural miracle that only God can do. People regaining their sight while their retinas are still detached constitutes a supernatural miracle. Demons cannot accomplish any of these.

Someone being cured of a bad back is likely not a supernatural miracle. Someone walking with a shattered spinal cord is.

Thus, those who come to Jesus and proclaim that they are performing miracles, are automatic liars, because true miracles can only be performed by God THROUGH a vessel such as Peter, or the Virgin Mary, The Virgin Mary has indeed appeared in many places, and has indeed been the conduit through which God has performed many miracles.

Shake my head, how do you come up with this?
I don't for a second doubt you believe what you have just declared. I just have no idea where such a belief comes from. Certainly it isn't from the Bible, so I have to assume it's from some mystical ascetic living on a pole in the Saharan desert.
This entire thread comes across as a Dan Brown fiction. I'm waiting for the Knights of Templar to be invoked at any moment.

 

[37818]

Demons cannot perform supernatural miracles because they cannot create. . . .

In the strict sense only God can create (Genesis 1:1). Yet God is going to allow as we read in Revelation 13:11-13, ". . . And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, . . ."

Jesus warns about the lost thinking they should be saved because, ". . . Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? . . ." -- Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[37818]

There is another reason I reject those letters ascribed to be of Ignatius of Antioch, the teaching found in them are not according to the word of God. This video presents this issue.

Jesus had His disciples do the baptizing (immersing), John 4:1-2. Jesus taught an equal brotherhood, Matthew 23:8. The deacon Philip baptized (immersed) new converts, Acts of the Apostles 8:12; Acts of the Apostles 8:26-40.

 

[Yeshua1]

As I've said, I am a Pentecostal Methodist, not a Catholic. But I feel led of God to defend or at least present biblical perspectives on Catholic distinctives in the hope that they can receive a fair hearing. What interests me far more are the major apparitions of the Virgin Mary. Though the RC Church accepts the authenticity of Marian apparitions at Guadaloupe, Fatima, and Lourdes (among other locales), Rome has yet to pronounce on the validity of the more recent apparitions at Medjugorje in Bosnia from 1981 to the present. I have been impressed by the testimonies of very bright acquaintances (e.g. a lawyer and a behavior psychologist) whose lives have been changed by pilgrimages to Medjugorje, sharing in the visions and experiencing miracles while there. Countless millions of pilgrims have now visited the sites of these Bosnian visions. Please watch this BBC video on the origin of these Marian visions and share your reactions:

Medjugorje Documentary - Bing video

For me, the jury is out on these miraculous apparitions because of the 10 epic secrets revealed by Mary to the children. The children know the dates on which these events will be fulfilled and promise to disclose the exact dates 3 days in advance of their fulfillment. From their remarks, it seems that some of these events are truly apocalyptic!

As for myself, I visited the alleged house of the Virgin Mary atop a majestic little mountain outside of Ephesus in Turkey and I sensed the loving presence of the Holy Spirit there more powerfully than I did in my trips to biblical sites in Greece and Israel. I visited this house during a "Footsteps of St. Paul" tour out of curiosity arising from a spectacular healing miracle experienced there by a highly skeptical Methodist friend who had visited Mary's house previously. I'll share these experiences in greater detail in future posts. Please watch the video before you post a reaction![/QUOTE
Would say that every so called appearance of Mary was satanic in nature!

 

[utilyan]

There is another reason I reject those letters ascribed to be of Ignatius of Antioch, the teaching found in them are not according to the word of God. This video presents this issue.

Jesus had His disciples do the baptizing (immersing), John 4:1-2. Jesus taught an equal brotherhood, Matthew 23:8. The deacon Philip baptized (immersed) new converts, Acts of the Apostles 8:12; Acts of the Apostles 8:26-40.

Please is there ANY early church father you'd call legit? I bet they say Ignatius was legit.

There would have been an uproar since the apostles are STILL ALIVE. There is no one to reject Ignatius' beliefs till 2019?

He was disciple of JOHN and APPOINTED BY PETER.

Being the very next generation of bishop after an apostle your saying Jesus' lead his own institution so badly that even the first generation as the bible teaches to pick out bishops failed. rendering scripture as useless advice.

I don't think you would consider ANY church father legit. Because they believe NOTHING like you do. The second your done reading revelations you chop it to 1500 years later.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Whio says so? Does this come from Scripture?

Demons cannot perform supernatural miracles because they cannot create. Demons rely on natural phenomena to present the appearance of a miracle, which is what takes place during many false Marian apparitions. Supernatural miracles, such as the immediate drying of a crowd of 70,000 witnesses after a deluge at Fatima is a supernatural miracle that only God can do. Bone and muscle tissue that suddenly heals and reconstitutes itself is a supernatural miracle that only God can do. People regaining their sight while their retinas are still detached constitutes a supernatural miracle. Demons cannot accomplish any of these.

Someone being cured of a bad back is likely not a supernatural miracle. Someone walking with a shattered spinal cord is.

Thus, those who come to Jesus and proclaim that they are performing miracles, are automatic liars, because true miracles can only be performed by God THROUGH a vessel such as Peter, or the Virgin Mary, The Virgin Mary has indeed appeared in many places, and has indeed been the conduit through which God has performed many miracles.

 

[Adonia]

It is absolutely true. But, WHO decided the 27 books were the ones out of all the spurious ones? What church did the Holy Spirit use to determine that those 27 books were canonical? Certainly not a group of Baptist. Historians make it clear. Take the blinders off.

Where is the list? Where is the list of the books that should be in the Bible stated in the Bible? Surely if the scriptures tell us everything we need to know and that all we need is right there in them, there must be a list of the books that should be included in the canon somewhere. Where is the list?

 

[utilyan]

Where is the list? Where is the list of the books that should be in the Bible stated in the Bible? Surely if the scriptures tell us everything we need to know and that all we need is right there in them, there must be a list of the books that should be included in the canon somewhere. Where is the list?

"Where is the list of the books that should be in the Bible stated in the Bible?"

Well its right here on the bible durrr.....

Finding out where the list comes from is a sure way of taking gun into your denomination's mouth and pulling the trigger twice.