There is no "corporate election" concerning salvation even hinted at in Scriptures. It is a figment of imaginations who disregard the truth.
God elects specific people and He also elects Specific nations for a purpose.
However, when it comes to soteriology there is never a presentation of corporate election of unnamed individuals.
Folks, Van's technique is to distract.
He has and does teach that faith is innate in humankind and may be exercised (lately under the work of the Word and testimony) to gain God's approval. He spent many posts on pointing to the possessive pronouns associated with faith. Yet, he missed the key statement that faith comes. It is possessed by the believers because faith was gifted by God and therefore believers possessed the faith (assurance and evidence) in contrast to the innate human hope-so of unbelievers.
He has spent many posts defending the view that prior to one being credited as saved, they must have faith in which God examines to find if it is creditable and sufficient. This is not new to Van.
Let's see if Van actually has modified his views by how he presents in the following statements.
Van is very good at proof-texting. He lifts this one verse from a larger passage and attempts to present something that is just not supportable. Here is the passage:
1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
Do you see what Van is doing?
He agrees with the Scripture to a point, but then departs.
What is the purpose of the passage?
The coming of the Lord and the destruction of the "lawless one" at his coming.
One can read a short version of when and how this takes place in Revelation 19.
What term does Paul use toward believers?
"Beloved of the Lord" and "God chose you as the first fruits to be saved."
In what manner did such God use to bring the believer to Him?
"Sanctification by the Sprit AND belief in the truth."
Paul further reinforces that by the next statement, "He called you... you may obtain..."
So, what is different from what Van contends about this passage?
Three issues:
1) "God chose" the Ephesians, and by extension all believers. The NASB (which Van likes) actually states "from the beginning" and it points to the beginning of what humans might consider time. Consistent with Revelation 13 concerning when the election took place.
2) "Sanctification by the Spirit" is that which happens prior to belief,
3) "Belief is obtained" it is not self conjured human faith. Saving faith is not our, my, his, your, ... in which the possession is innate but is our, my, his your... faith because it was granted (obtained, given ownership...).
2) "Sanctification by the Spirit" is that which happens prior to belief,
3) "Belief is obtained" it is not self conjured human faith. Saving faith is not our, my, his, your, ... in which the possession is innate but is our, my, his your... faith because it was granted (obtained, given ownership...).
Election was from the foundation, "God chose" not corporately, but individuals by name as Revelation 13 states.
Election is carried out (think of the inauguration ceremony for a president, legislator, judge) by God pronouncing that person "Sanctified (Holy) by the Spirit." AND that person "belief in the truth." Romans expresses how belief in the heart comes first and confession of salvation is made. Belief is the same word as faith, and is gifted to believers by God.
See, Van doesn't present but a portion in order to support what he considers is superior but is in fact invalidated by Scriptures.
Note: I another thread, Van presented his view of "sets us apart" which was also inconsistent with the presentation of Scriptures. He assumes that the Sanctification is made by distance (as one might move a lamp from one table to another) and not that in which is a retitle.
Does adoption takes place when a judge picks up a child and places them into the arms of the adoptee, or when by legal documentations ownership is transferred?
Typically, Van will use Titus 3 as a proof-text:
3Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled and became slaves to many lusts and pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy, and we hated each other. 4But—When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, 5he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.a 6He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7Because of his grace he made us right in his sight and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life.
What Van fails to account is that long before these events take place, God at the foundation of the world, established BY NAME (Revelation 13) those who would be believers.
There is nothing in Titus 3 (or anywhere else) that places doubt upon the veracity of Revelation 13.
Brief on Titus 3:
1) God our Savior revealed his kindness and love. That was not done at the foundation - yet the names were written down.
2) He saved us - not we making appeal to God and then He looking to see if the appeal is earnest, honest and fervent enough.
3) Why - because of His mercy, He washed away our sins, He gave us a new birth, He gave us new life, He poured His Spirit out upon us.
4) Because of His unmerited favor (grace) He made us right in His sight, and He gave us confidence of inheritance.
Folks, do you read Van posting Scriptures with clear valid presentations? 2) He saved us - not we making appeal to God and then He looking to see if the appeal is earnest, honest and fervent enough.
3) Why - because of His mercy, He washed away our sins, He gave us a new birth, He gave us new life, He poured His Spirit out upon us.
4) Because of His unmerited favor (grace) He made us right in His sight, and He gave us confidence of inheritance.
No.
Look back over Van's posts in this thread.
Over and over, when the Scriptures were quoted and valid presentations made, he demeaned and discarded, distracted by assignment to disregard and puffing up his own unsupportable view.
He would urge you to "pay not attention."
I would urge you to search the Scriptures.
