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Featured Slavery and Civil war.

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Reynolds, Dec 9, 2019.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    But the southern states at that time was part of the USA? So what was their catalyst to separation?
     
    #41 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 10, 2019
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Someone is reading too much Lew Rockwell. LOL
     
    #42 Reformed, Dec 10, 2019
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Never heard of him.
     
    #43 Reynolds, Dec 10, 2019
  4. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Extreme boredom.
     
    #44 Rob_BW, Dec 10, 2019
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  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    My late father was from Kittitas and Yakima Counties in Washington State. So, when he was stationed at Lackland AAFB, in San Antonio, he was asked what side of the war his family fought on. His answer, "My folks were Westerners. We were too busy fighting Indians to worry about what was going on back East."

    I base my thinking on the cause of the late Unpleasentess on what I read in Dabney's biography of T.J. "Stonewall" Jackson. Dabney explained Jackson's position on Soil Sovereignty. This position held that full US citizenship flowed from State citizenship. Dabney's example was the Kansas conflict. He held that since Kansas Territory was not a state its inhabitants could not decide whether it should be free or slave. Dabney explained that as soon as Virginia seceded Jackson no longer considered himself a US citizen. All that to say this. One of the root causes of the conflict was a divergence on the matter of citizenship. Jackson and others looked at it as a federal matter. Folks in the West and MidWest looked at it as a national matter.
     
    #45 Squire Robertsson, Dec 12, 2019
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  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    But Dabney was not impartial on the matter of slavery. He was pro-slavery. By arguing the matter of citizenship he effectively dodged the slavery issue.
     
    #46 Reformed, Dec 12, 2019
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  7. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Never thought of Dabney as being objective. I thought he laid out the position in a manner I could understand. Not agree with it just understand it,
     
    #47 Squire Robertsson, Dec 12, 2019
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I haven't read Dabney's Stonewall bio, but I've read several others. he had become a devout calvinistic Christian by the time the war started, While he never spoke out for or against slavery, he did say it was found in the Bible without being condemned, and he was an utter believer in states' rights. He started several classes to teach blacks, both slave & free, how to read & write, encouraging them to read the Bible soon as they became proficient in reading. And he utterly detested any mistreatment of any slave, including overwork, neglect of medical attention, inadequate food or clothes, or beating/whipping as punishment, as well as rape & other crimes against them.

    But his main cause for becoming a Confederate soldier was states' rights, & when Virginia seceded, he & Lee seceded with her.
     
    #48 robycop3, Dec 12, 2019
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  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    They should of hung them both. Would have saved allot of bloodshed.
     
    #49 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2019
  10. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Jackson was killed by friendly fire,
     
    #50 Squire Robertsson, Dec 14, 2019
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Friendly Fire - ISN'T ! (Unknown US Marine)

    If the enemy is within range - SO ARE YOU ! (old Soviet military training manual)
     
    #51 robycop3, Dec 14, 2019
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The South wanted to keep slavery, and so wanted to leave the Union for that reason. So that made the war over slavery.
     
    #52 37818, Dec 14, 2019
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  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The South left the U S A over states rights. Economic rights to be precise. You could legitimately list one of those rights as " expansion of slavery" but its complete dishonesty to list slavery as one of them.

    For the record, Lincoln did not want to free slaves, he wanted to deport them.
     
    #53 Reynolds, Dec 14, 2019
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  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Lincoln wanted to keep the Union. But the South wanted to leave the Union over Slavery. Lincoln personally did not favor slavery. The South's reason for the war proved to be a reason all slavery had to end.
     
    #54 37818, Dec 14, 2019
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    " . . . I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free." -- A. Lincoln
     
    #55 37818, Dec 14, 2019
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Only problem is that is not historically correct.
     
    #56 Reynolds, Dec 15, 2019
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  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Free in Africa at some point on time. He did not favor immediate or short term end of slavery. He believed the economic system of slavery would die its own natural death due to many factors such ad mechanization. He did not favor forcing abolition onto the South. You cant find an orig. pre war source that suggests he did.
     
    #57 Reynolds, Dec 15, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Lincoln would have loved to. His military was too inept in the first half of the war to be able to do it.
     
    #58 Reynolds, Dec 15, 2019
  19. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    It was the shot that lost the war for the South. Jacksons absence at Gettysburg was the direct cause of Lee's loss.
     
    #59 Reynolds, Dec 15, 2019
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What specificly in my statment is false?
    Did or did not Lincoln what to, as President, to keep the Union, slavery or not?
    What state in the South did not vote to leave the Union over slavery?
    Was it not Lincoln's view that all men should be free?
    Who according to history started the fight of the Civle War?
    What in that video was false?
    Present and state the fact that is false. And the one fact that can be proved that said false fact is false.
     
    #60 37818, Dec 15, 2019
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