Featured How does a non-believer make sense of the Bible?

BenWest,

The first thing to understand is that ONLY the people of the last days can understand the Bible.

No, but it's obvious that the view you have is not true to Genesis.

God hid His Truth in Genesis and His Truth will be confirmed by the discoveries of the people of the last days before Jesus returns. Daniel 12:4

Dan 12:4 ¶ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

When knowledge is increased above that of superstitious ancient men, the book will be unsealed. What reveals the Truth is the "increased knowledge"of mankind. God's Truth in Scripture IS also the Truth, Scientifically, Historically, Genetically and Mathematically. If it isn't, then you have the wrong interpretation. Want to see the agreement of Genesis with Science?

This is because ONLY Christians of the last days can understand HOW God's Truth agrees in every way with the factual discoveries of Science, History, Genetics and Math. Truth is Truth and it MUST agree with every other Truth or it is NOT the correct interpretation of Genesis.

Then please give us just ONE example of where Genesis disagrees with ANY discovery of man. Many have tried but none has been able to do it. Please try.

 

BenWest,

This is absurd. people have understood the scriptures since they have been written. This post is irrational speculation and unfounded.

 

Did the ancient Hebrews understand? Not according to God:

Jer 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Do most people today understand Genesis? Of course not. God told Daniel how to hide His Truth in front of everyone's eyes until the last days before Jesus returns::

Dan 12:4 ¶ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

You tell the Lord all this at the great white throne. See if it helps your case. All of your accusations are erroneous slander
MB.

 

Not all of the Bible has been known and understood until just recently. You should know this being the great student of scripture you claim to be. There still maybe somethings still to come to light.
MB

 

And no proof?

If I have posted as you claim, you should have no trouble finding the proof.

That you cannot is merely showing that, again, exuberance has driven the agenda and not rational thought grounded upon Scripture principles.

Perhaps it may be wise for you to look at this passage from Colossians:

1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

5Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.8But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. 9Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, 10and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him— 11a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

12So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.
​

This passage is abundant with principles to not only incorporate but foundational truths.

 

The great mystery hidden yet seen as one might “know there is more to the story” is/was the Gentile inclusion into the redeemed, that is the church.

Other than that, there really was no mystery, but rather the rejection and rebelliousness that blinds one from the truth or even discovery of the truth.

This is evident in the wise guys coming with all their entourage to Herod. The religious who should have been camping out expectantly in Bethlehem (because they knew the prophecies) coveted their own position and were unresponsive to the truth of the birth.

Surly they heard the reports from 8 miles away concerning what the shepherds witnessed. Did they send emissaries to investigate? Nope.

What of the common “ignorant” folks?

Do you remember on the dedication day that two recognized the Christ, and spoke to the parents, both rejoicing that they had seen the messiah?

You are right about one thing.

Because it is the last days, though it may last till long after I cross over, knowledge has increased in all areas.

As a result there is also that great apostasy creeping into the modern assemblies.

Even so, despite the wickedness growing, irregardless of satanic efforts, God may your reaping take place.

Two great reapings (Rev. 14)
1) that of the redeemed in the church reaped to sit at the Lambs table
2) that of the fakers, the wolves in the church to be utterly cast into hell.


“Blessed are those who are in that first resurrection.” Rev 20

 

"BenWest,

Those elected by God did, read Hebrews11

These were the reprobate covenant breakers

Sure they do...why do you say such a thing?

Daniel does not speak about Jesus here. We are not told "the end of what". You are building these verses up to say things they do not say.

 

They are your accusations not mine and you want me to prove your accusations. LOL
MB

 

I do now most certainly accuse you of being a false witness.

You made false claims concerning my posts, and if you could refute the title of false witness, you would have merely had to prove that I even hinted at what you accused my post of declaring.

This is an open forum in which anyone may read.

In this public place you have brought question to my integrity, the zeal for the salvation of the lost, claim I engage in erroneous slander, and yet, not a single presentation of proof to substantiate the claims.

You make grand claims - each unfounded.

Therefore, you are a false witness.

I should ask your forgiveness in forgetting to recognize how lacking in honorableness a person can be when they are sinfully unrepentant.

Will you forgive me for expecting better of you?

I am old. I certainly make mistakes.

Surly someone like you could have shown proof that I even hinted at what you accuse.

I would certainly have repented.

 

I've already proven Calvinism is false. You just can't deal with it. Your attack on me just shows you have nothing to argue with so you attack me personally. It all runs down hill. You are the false witness.Just like now you know what you are saying and it all proves my point.
MB

 

This isn't about Calvinism, for that would allow you to distract from the contention between us.

This is not about my imaginary attack on you as you would attempt to present.

This is about your own continued bluster and attempts to shift the focus from your own false witness as to my character, my witness, my zeal.

Here are your own words, attacking me:

"This is your worse post yet. Men have been saved by reading the Bible. I didn't really expect such an ignorant reply from a Calvinist but given what you believe I should not have expected and evangelistic approached. Now you know why I hate Calvinism you don't want anyone to be saved. After all you don't want heaven to be over crowded. Don't Bragg about you evangelist efforts to me anymore.
MB"

"You don't like the idea a man can be saved by reading God's Word. His Word is the gospel of our Salvation with out which no one would be saved."

"Actually it is you that does not understand what Calvinism is. Like many you think it is the gospel. You only think you understand. When others try to tell you the truth of the gospel it's always they just don't understand. No one is as intelligent as a Calvinist according to them. I can only tell you the truth I can't make you accept it. You hate Freewill because it places the blame on you and not God.
​

I ask you to PROVE that I even hinted at what you presented as my posted statement. You didn't and cannot. Let's try again.

Here it is so you don't have to lose your place by looking back through the thread:

"The best a non-believer may do is read the Bible as one reads any good literature.

They may find certain passages that they would like to emulate, incorporate, quote, and even some principles to live by, but ultimately it is nothing more than a book of stories and promises made to others.

The unsaved derive no eternal value from the Bible any more than some believers who leave it unread."​

You made false considering that post. You compounded the error by attacking my own character, witness and zeal.

Therefore, you are a false witness.

You have a choice.

You really believe in the freedom to choose then choose.

You only have to repent and apologize.

Or, you can cover up your sinfulness and hope that time will benefit you with not being accountable.

I am old enough to know that time is no beneficiary when it comes to the need for repentance and apology.

 

Of course there are other things to happen in the last days. A good example is that God is going to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh in the last days.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh:

God's Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and God is currently pouring out His Spirit of Truth upon the world through the agreement of Genesis with science, history, genetics and math.

 

My point is that in the last days before Jesus returns, God will pour out His Spirit of Truth through the agreement of Scripture with every other discovered Truth of mankind. God's Truth MUST agree with the discoveries of mankind IF His Truth in Genesis is true, and it is.

A good example of this is the Scriptural Fact that the beginning of our Universe was on the 3rd Day according to Genesis 2:4 AND the emergence of the FIRST Stars was on the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16 This agrees with the recent discoveries of Astronomy which shows the SAME. https://www.nationalgeographic.com › news › 2018/02 › first-stars-univers...Feb 28, 2018

ONLY God could have possibly known this thousands of years ago. It's testable proof of God.

 

Hebrews 11, the Faith chapter, confirms that ONLY by Faith can one become a Christian. This is God's Truth for those EXCEPT the people of the last days, with the increased knowledge of the last 3k years, which AGREES in every way with every discovery of mankind. Daniel 12:4

Ben West:>>Do most people today understand Genesis?

Because I see no one attempting to reconcile Genesis with the latest discoveries of science, history, genetics and math. A good example is the Scriptural Fact that Genesis 1:8 shows that God made the FIRST Heaven on the 2nd Day. Genesis 2:4 shows that LORD God made other HeavenS (plural) on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made.

Ben West:>>God told Daniel how to hide His Truth in front of everyone's eyes until the last days before Jesus returns::

Dan 12:4 ¶ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Jesus is NOT physically on Earth today but instead, is preparing a place for us in the 3rd Heaven. The time of the last days is provably here. I have two Scriptural witnesses for my views and I resent your implication that "You are building these verses up to say things they do not say." This is false.

 

I don't particularly disagree with this thinking.

However, there is one matter that needs to be remembered.

imo, God does this validating process not to draw folks to Him (though that certainly may happen) but to further isolate the apostasy that is spoken in covering the earth.

2that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.​

The preoccupation of monstrously evil and often with superpowers has and will continue to deaden the masses into believing a lie.

3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. ​

Some discredit this as to mean that Herodian temple polluted and torn down. But that isn't the one of which the prophets point for it was never the size given to the prophet.

The biggest apostasy of the ages is the charismatic "healthy, wealthy, and (pretending) blessed of God" movement that has swept across the world.

 

Perhaps you are placing great emphasis upon Daniel "shut(ing) up the words"... as if discovery of what was shut up is a key that unlocks all mysteries. It doesn't.

God told John to do the same thing in the Revelation.

Now, what exactly the presentation of what is shut up in these two places is not for humankind to know at this time.

Rather, it is as a great detective working on an extremely difficult case and searching for what they know not. When they find it, they will know what they are searching for.

That is how the presentation of that shut (imo) will occur.

When it happens, we will know what it is and was and why it was important to keep it sealed from humankind.

I am cautioning you from jumping ahead and attempting to resolve a mystery that is yet to be opened for all believers to understand.

 

My view is that God is currently confirming His scientific view, which is first shown in Genesis. It's a special message to the people of the last days since they are the first to have the "increased knowledge" or accumulated discoveries of mankind, available to them. Humans today have become cold and callous and will not believe God's Truth in Genesis UNLESS it can be shown to be testable proof. That's where I come in. I show the agreement of Genesis with EVERY other discovered Truth.

 

Here's the secret to understanding Genesis. Genesis Chapter One is the entire History of God's 6 Days of work in creating the perfect Heaven. Genesis 2:1-3 speaks of a FUTURE 7th Day.

EVERY other verse in the Bible refers BACK to one of God's 7 Days and adds details to the entire History or Outline shown in the first 34 verses of Genesis.

A good example is the fact that Genesis 2:4 takes us BACK to the events of the 3rd Day and adds details of the 3rd Day when Adam was formed from the dust of the ground. Genesis 2:4-9