Pope calls idea of declaring Mary co-redemptrix ‘foolishness’

[church mouse guy]

Very good post.

Protestants do have doctrinal statements delineating a denomination's belief. Also, there are good systematic theologies. Protestants & Catholics probably agree on essential doctrines but differ on many other issues. Protestantism is changing as we have to cope with the fact that Darwinism has been proven to be scientifically impossible.

 

[Reformed1689]

Protestants & Catholics probably agree on essential doctrines but differ on many other issues.

We agree on SOME essential doctrines.

 

[RCommando]

Can we ban the anti-Bible Catholics now? @Squire Robertsson

No, he gave the verses and then expect us to accept the RCC commentary on those verses.

lol, at least you do recognize that the Bible is Catholic commentary.

 

[church mouse guy]

We agree on SOME essential doctrines.

Why don't you enumerate what you are talking about?

 

[robycop3]

The Church.

And where does the Church get that intel ? From SCRIPTURE, of course !

 

[robycop3]

God. Jesus Christ is the head of the Church. This is ALSO reported in scripture.

And how did Jesus communicate with the Church after He & the apostles were gone ? Thru SCRIPTURE, of course !

 

[Reformed1689]

lol, at least you do recognize that the Bible is Catholic commentary.

Now the Bible is commentary to the Catholic Church? You really are a heretic aren't you?

 

[Adonia]

And how did Jesus communicate with the Church after He & the apostles were gone ? Thru SCRIPTURE, of course !

Yep, the Scriptures, those sacred words which were compiled by the Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Church.

 

[Adonia]

No. The church was always around. It gets reported in scripture.

For example Paul knows the church is the pillar and ground of truth so he wrote it down. A bible did not fall out the sky for Paul to make this up.

A book did not fall out the sky then a group of people got together and say hey lets pretend to be the group in the book.

Scripture is the news. The good news and the church is real.

You still have not provided one verse to support your claim.


Its like saying "ONLY sentences that are three words long are true the rest are false"

Your teaching is false even self refuting. UNBIBLICAL

Biblical means not believing lies like Sola Scriptura.

The Good News was spread by the word of mouth, a concept known as preaching. This was entrusted to the Church and to the succeeding generations of Bishops. Jesus did not just write a book and leave it for the individual to figure it out for themselves. That is the main error of many Christian sects who think that they should be autonomous entities, even down to the individual believer to come up with what he will upon reading them.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yep, the Scriptures, those sacred words which were compiled by the Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Church.

So by your own admission the only direct communication we have from God now is SCRIPTURE. Thank you for FINALLY admitting to Sola Scriptura.

 

[Reformed1689]

That is the main error of many Christian sects who think that they should be autonomous entities, even down to the individual believer to come up with what he will upon reading them.

It's not "come up with what he will" there are very specific interpretive methods to come at a clear understanding of Scripture just like any other written document.

 

[robycop3]

Yep, the Scriptures, those sacred words which were compiled by the Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Church.

Actually, they were written by apostles before there was any RCC. And while the RCC CALLS itself "the one true Church", that's simply false. It's so full of MAN-MADE, non-Scriptural garbage that I don't even consider it an actual church, altho it does have some Christians in its membership.

 

[robycop3]

The Good News was spread by the word of mouth, a concept known as preaching. This was entrusted to the Church and to the succeeding generations of Bishops. Jesus did not just write a book and leave it for the individual to figure it out for themselves. That is the main error of many Christian sects who think that they should be autonomous entities, even down to the individual believer to come up with what he will upon reading them.

The apostles' writings were copied & distributed to many congregations. And the Jews did the same with the OT. And the Gospel itself was WRITTEN. Otherwise, it'd be like a fishing story-no matter how honest the teller of such a story is, if it keeps getting repeated, the fish will either grow or shrink as the story is told & re-told. Or, details may be forgotten or accidentally altered. But if it's written down at the time the fish was caught, it'll remain constant.

 

[utilyan]

Can we ban the anti-Bible Catholics now? @Squire Robertsson

No, he gave the verses and then expect us to accept the RCC commentary on those verses.

I didn't give a commentary. don't have to.

1 Timothy 3
15but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

 

[Reformed1689]

I didn't give a commentary. don't have to.

1 Timothy 3
15but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

I didn't say you did. I said you expect us to accept the catholic commentary.

 

[utilyan]

I didn't say you did. I said you expect us to accept the catholic commentary.

Why don't you give me a commentary.... I'm willing to bet There is no official catholic one.

 

[Reformed1689]

Why don't you give me a commentary.... I'm willing to bet There is no official catholic one.

Don't be daft. I am talking about the teaching of the Catholic Church when I use the term commentary. I'm not talking about a specific book.

 

[utilyan]

Don't be daft. I am talking about the teaching of the Catholic Church when I use the term commentary. I'm not talking about a specific book.

You don't want a Catholic teaching on this, that is fine. Everything Biblical is Catholic which is why there is no pressure here, you tell us what the verse means.

So go ahead give us the "commentary".

Here is the facts. You claim your teaching of Sola Scriptura is biblical, We ask you for the verse that plainly teaches it, and you get upset.

You should be happy I insist on a biblical teaching. You should be happy to provide the biblical teaching.

Instead of complaining why not just give us the verse?

 

[Reformed1689]

Everything Biblical is Catholic which is why there is no pressure here, you tell us what the verse means.

Only if that is a little c with the word universal in front of it and not referring to the church led by the Bishop of Rome.

Here is the facts. You claim your teaching of Sola Scriptura is biblical, We ask you for the verse that plainly teaches it, and you get upset.

I've never gotten upset. We know that Scripture is the only thing GIVEN TO US for instruction that can be verified. We can't verify oral tradition. We can't verify dreams, prophecies, etc. But we can verify what Scripture says.
Is Sola Scriptura in the Bible?

 

[utilyan]

Only if that is a little c with the word universal in front of it and not referring to the church led by the Bishop of Rome.


I've never gotten upset. We know that Scripture is the only thing GIVEN TO US for instruction that can be verified. We can't verify oral tradition. We can't verify dreams, prophecies, etc. But we can verify what Scripture says.
Is Sola Scriptura in the Bible?

"Only if that is a little c with the word universal in front of it and not referring to the church led by the Bishop of Rome."

The Catholic Church existed LONG before CAPITAL LETTERS existed, Its always been the one and only.

"We know that Scripture is the only thing GIVEN TO US for instruction that can be verified."

Not according to scripture. It says when someone sins in error you take it to the church.

We see Paul do this:

2 Corinthians 13

1This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWR THREE WITNESSES. 2I have previously said when present the second time, and though now absent I say in advance to those who have sinned in the past and to all the rest as well, that if I come again I will not spare anyone, 3since you are seeking for proof of the Christ who speaks in me, and who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you. 4For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you.

5Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? 6But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test. 7Now we pray to God that you do no wrong; not that we ourselves may appear approved, but that you may do what is right, even though we may appear unapproved. 8For we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. 9For we rejoice when we ourselves are weak but you are strong; this we also pray for, that you be made complete. 10For this reason I am writing these things while absent, so that when present I need not use severity, in accordance with the authority which the Lord gave me for building up and not for tearing down.


Matthew 18

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

"Is Sola Scriptura in the Bible?"

(No, and yes.) The Bible does not have specific text that suggests that the Bible alone is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. --RC Sproul


This is going to bite you in one end or the other. Your teaching is admitted not biblical. Trying to spin it as ITS BIBLICAL but its not in the BIBLE.

Seriously? Its not in the bible = its biblical? He could not even find a bible verse implicitly teaching this.

Isn't the whole point of it is so when you hear someone swear up and down this is a teaching, you flip through a bible and say WELL its not written in the scriptures.

No one suggested this was the teaching for 1500 years.


"We know that Scripture is the only thing GIVEN TO US for instruction that can be verified."

Well its been verified Sola Scriptura is not in the scriptures and its been verified that scripture is NOT the only thing given to us for instruction.