Where does Faith come from?

[Reformed1689]

Repeating the falsehood does not make it so.

We gain access to the gift of grace through faith, thus our faith exited before we were granted salvation by grace. Saying taint so does not alter the truth. Romans 5:1-2

We are not arguing against grace through faith. What I am arguing against is the idea that faith is not also a gift and that somehow we accomplish that faith on our own.

So I ask @Van, and others, this simple question. Where does faith come from? Does faith come from God or does it come from within ourselves?

 

[Yeshua1]

We are not arguing against grace through faith. What I am arguing against is the idea that faith is not also a gift and that somehow we accomplish that faith on our own.

So I ask @Van, and others, this simple question. Where does faith come from? Does faith come from God or does it come from within ourselves?

Has to be from God, as Paul stated that was so Ephesians 2:8-10, if faith is somehow in us all, why do some believe then and some do not? Would no God be respecting and giving credit to those who "co operated" with Him to save them?

 

[Marooncat79]

I know!

I know!

Pick me!! Pick me!!

 

[JonC]

I know!

I know!

Pick me!! Pick me!!

Marooncat79, you have your hand up....

 

[Reformed]

Where does faith come from? Does faith come from God or does it come from within ourselves?

Faith must come from God. The fact that humans are born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1; Colossian 2:13) and incapable of any positive action towards God (1 Corinthians 2:14) makes that abundantly clear.

 

[Particular]

I would expect @Van to say that faith comes from God as a gift. That is not where the disagreement lies.
The question is whether God gifts all humans with the opportunity to activate faith when He creates humans or whether faith is a gift given only to the elect, after the elect are made alive with Christ.
Van seems to believe that God has given faith to all humanity. It is up to each person as to whether they will use that faith to activate God's gracious work of salvation.
Ultimately it is similar to the view I once held, which is that the only sin that keeps us out of heaven is the sin of unbelief. God gives us the opportunity to activate faith and we either do so or we reject such faith. Rejection leads to damnation. Van then declares that the person who chooses to activate faith can never undo it. Faith is turned on forever and salvation is secured unto eternity. (OSAS)

So, in both views, God is gifting faith. The questions are:
When?
With whom? (all or just some)

 

[Revmitchell]

We are not arguing against grace through faith. What I am arguing against is the idea that faith is not also a gift and that somehow we accomplish that faith on our own.

Please describe what you mean by accomplish faith on our own

 

[JonC]

We are not arguing against grace through faith. What I am arguing against is the idea that faith is not also a gift and that somehow we accomplish that faith on our own.

So I ask @Van, and others, this simple question. Where does faith come from? Does faith come from God or does it come from within ourselves?

Psalm 16:2 I say to the LORD, “You are my Lord; apart from you I have no good thing .”

 

[Reformed1689]

I know!

I know!

Pick me!! Pick me!!

Yes? You are up to bat!

 

[Reformed1689]

I would expect @Van to say that faith comes from God as a gift. That is not where the disagreement lies.
The question is whether God gifts all humans with the opportunity to activate faith when He creates humans or whether faith is a gift given only to the elect, after the elect are made alive with Christ.
Van seems to believe that God has given faith to all humanity. It is up to each person as to whether they will use that faith to activate God's gracious work of salvation.
Ultimately it is similar to the view I once held, which is that the only sin that keeps us out of heaven is the sin of unbelief. God gives us the opportunity to activate faith and we either do so or we reject such faith. Rejection leads to damnation. Van then declares that the person who chooses to activate faith can never undo it. Faith is turned on forever and salvation is secured unto eternity. (OSAS)

So, in both views, God is gifting faith. The questions are:
When?
With whom? (all or just some)

This is an interesting point. If that faith is counted to Abraham as righteousness, and it was, and everyone has faith, we are not all counted as righteous?

 

[Reformed1689]

Please describe what you mean by accomplish faith on our own

It seems that some argue here that faith is not a gift from God and it is somehow something we do on our own through our own willpower. Does that help clarify?

 

[tyndale1946]

It seems that some argue here that faith is not a gift from God and it is somehow something we do on our own through our own willpower. Does that help clarify?

If the heart is not change by God, where is the faith?... Brother Glen

 

[Particular]

This is an interesting point. If that faith is counted to Abraham as righteousness, and it was, and everyone has faith, we are not all counted as righteous?

Correct
That would be where grace comes in. God will graciously choose to consider one person's faith as righteousness, because they chose to believe, while counting another person's faith as unrighteousness because they chose to not believe. Abraham's faith was considered as righteousness because he chose to believe. Judas's faith was considered as unrighteousness because he chose to reject. Faith is therefore neutral and choice is the activator that God looks at to determine whether it falls in the positive or the negative side. What God chooses to declare is final and just.

 

[Reformed1689]

Correct
That would be where grace comes in. God will graciously choose to consider one person's faith as righteousness, because they chose to believe, while counting another person's faith as unrighteousness because they chose to not believe. Abraham's faith was considered as righteousness because he chose to believe. Judas's faith was considered as unrighteousness because he chose to reject. Faith is therefore neutral and choice is the activator that God looks at to determine whether it falls in the positive or the negative side. What God chooses to declare is final and just.

Which amounts to works-based in my opinion. If we have to literally do something before God makes the choice, that's works based.

 

[Yeshua1]

Correct
That would be where grace comes in. God will graciously choose to consider one person's faith as righteousness, because they chose to believe, while counting another person's faith as unrighteousness because they chose to not believe. Abraham's faith was considered as righteousness because he chose to believe. Judas's faith was considered as unrighteousness because he chose to reject. Faith is therefore neutral and choice is the activator that God looks at to determine whether it falls in the positive or the negative side. What God chooses to declare is final and just.

The person who exercises faith would be the one that god has regenerated in order to have them enabled to do that, they would be the very elect of God!

 

[Yeshua1]

I would expect @Van to say that faith comes from God as a gift. That is not where the disagreement lies.
The question is whether God gifts all humans with the opportunity to activate faith when He creates humans or whether faith is a gift given only to the elect, after the elect are made alive with Christ.
Van seems to believe that God has given faith to all humanity. It is up to each person as to whether they will use that faith to activate God's gracious work of salvation.
Ultimately it is similar to the view I once held, which is that the only sin that keeps us out of heaven is the sin of unbelief. God gives us the opportunity to activate faith and we either do so or we reject such faith. Rejection leads to damnation. Van then declares that the person who chooses to activate faith can never undo it. Faith is turned on forever and salvation is secured unto eternity. (OSAS)

So, in both views, God is gifting faith. The questions are:
When?
With whom? (all or just some)

he grants that faith to just His own, as he also regenerates them to be able to do that!

 

[Particular]

Which amounts to works-based in my opinion. If we have to literally do something before God makes the choice, that's works based.

The view is similar to Roman Catholic teaching when they use the term "grace." Humans must do something. God is not obligated to give humans anything. But, God looks upon their use of the faith they were given and God makes the choice. He either graciously calls it righteous or he justly calls it unrighteous. God still makes the call, but humans have to do something upon which God can make a decision.
Do you see the twisted mindset that turns works into grace? I held that view for years until I invested myself in understanding what God was saying about his choosing, his election and his predestination. It was 20 some years into Christian life before I understood God's biblical role in my salvation. I had a twisted understanding. God was kind in working out my salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Particular]

he grants that faith to just His own, as he also regenerates them to be able to do that!

This is the position that you and I hold. I expect that Van disagrees and holds a view where God gives faith to all humanity and expects humans to use that faith to glorify Him. Those who do so will be counted as righteous. Those who don't will be counted as wicked.
God decides, which is his act of grace to some and justice to the others.
The unforgivable sin is therefore...unbelief.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is the position that you and I hold. I expect that Van disagrees and holds a view where God gives faith to all humanity and expects humans to use that faith to glorify Him. Those who do so will be counted as righteous. Those who don't will be counted as wicked.
God decides, which is his act of grace to some and justice to the others.
The unforgivable sin is therefore...unbelief.

Unless God enables them to receive Jesus to save them, all will keep on rejecting him...

 

[Van]

We are not arguing against grace through faith. What I am arguing against is the idea that faith is not also a gift and that somehow we accomplish that faith on our own.
So I ask @Van, and others, this simple question. Where does faith come from? Does faith come from God or does it come from within ourselves?

That question has been asked and answered dozen of times. Just quote the answer then actually address the answer. Stop repeating the question.