Featured Spiritual Death

I agree with much here. Adam was created upright. Sin originated with Adam, not God.

Where we disagree is in the assumption this equates to Adam possessing "spiritual life". If you affirm @Iconoclast's interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15, that the passage speaks of Adam created first with a physical body and second with a spiritual one as proof Adam was given spiritual life prior to Christ becoming a life-giving Spirit then we disagree on multiple accounts.

I do see your idea that "before the Fall, Adam was designated prophet, priest and king under God" as going too far. These are offices typified in the OT pointing to the NT. You may be correct but it is purely philosophical conjecture from our vantage gazing back. What we have to rely upon is Scripture.

So we agree on a lot, yet disagree on much as well. That's life. Beyond what Scripture actually teaches us we will simply have to wait until we know in full. Then we can discuss it knowing rather than speculating over a cup of coffee. You can have a spot of tea.

 

Iconoclast,

There is no reason for you to be so abusive and insulting. People do not have to agree with each other and in life you will find many Christians will disagree with your ideas. You would do well to remember that the people you abuse are people for whom Christ died.

I am not saying this because we disagree as I would say the same if we were in complete agreement on these doctrines. What you do to others you do to Christ. This is a principle I encourage you to keep in mind.

I have found that I learn more from discussing doctrine with people I disagree with, those who hold opposing opinions, than those who hold the exact same positions I affirm. This is "iron sharpening iron". It is not without friction. But it is without hate.

You need to examine yourself and how you treat people who disagree with you.

 

Again, Iconoclast, there is no need for your attacks against me or anyone else. People are going to disagree with you. People are going to disagree with the preachers you choose to follow. You disagree with me. Just because I am a preacher licensed by a Baptist church does not mean I am beyond question.

I never claimed that anyone (pastor or otherwise) was drawing on paganism. I stated a simple fact. ANE paganism (temple cities) can be viewed as an attempt to return to a "Garden". They were set up that way. They built towers, not to get themselves to Heaven but to get the gods to come down. Christianity does not look to a restoration of sacred space. It does not look to a restoration of mankind to a pre-fall state. Christianity looks to a new Creation. If you are interested in the topic (ANE religion and Christianity) pm me and I can recommend a few resources.

I hope that clarifies your misunderstanding of my comments, if not for you for the board.

These instances show why it is so important to ask questions about other people's views. If you can set aside the malice you may actually find those who disagree with your ideas have reasons for doing do.
You may not agree with our reasons, and we may often be wrong. But that does not give you the right to wage war to shut down any disagreeing voice.

It is not right that Christians suffer insults simply because they hold an understanding that differs from yours. This is not the agenda you are called you pursue.

 

I view spiritual death and spiritual life as centered on the indwelling of the Spirit. I think the believer can willfully sin (willfully "feed" the old nature) but can also die daily to sin (bear his cross). I do not believe the one without spiritual life is able to do anything but satisfy the flesh. His mind is simply set on the flesh.

We can look at the fruits and have a glimpse at the Spirit (whether of the flesh or the Spirit).

The natural man (spiritual death) has the fruits of the flesh. He is full of malice, arrogant, seeks his own agenda, sanders others, insults, attacks, is unforgiving, holds a grudge, is unkind, and interacts with hatred rather than charity.

The spiritual man (spiritual life) keeps no record of wrongs, is forgiving, interacts with kindness, does not seek his own agenda, tries to uplift others, is not insulting towards people, and demonstrates patience and charity.

Robert Frost wrote of two roads that diverged in a yellow wood. Men have choices.

The spiritually dead choose to walk in darkness. Those in darkness cannot help but insult and attack. It is their nature.

The spiritual man chooses to walk in the Light. Those in the Light cannot help but interact in love and kindness. It is his nature.

Perhaps God is convicting you today. That is good as God disciplines those who are His. We are not called to return to the bondage of sin but are liberated from the law of sin and death. Choose Life.

 

I never knew him to have them to begin with. My experience has been that he has always been arrogant and insulting to anyone who dared argue against his position. I suppose that is why I became a target. Sometimes when people are indoctrinated into a view that they do not fully understand (particularly understand in context with other Christian views) and cannot defend their faith they choose to attack and insult other people who would dare challenge their position.

His agenda is to censor and silence any position that differs from his own and he dies it by slander and insult (he tries to discredit anyone who holds views other than his). This is how he has addressed Skandelion and DHK. This is how he dealt with you, MB, InTheLIght, and me.

I believe that the truth of our character and where we stand does not come through when we are among the like-minded but when we are among Christians who strongly disagree with our views. I sometimes struggle here, I admit. It is easy to be kind to people who are "in your camp". But even the wicked love their children. The truth of our character comes through not in agreeable circumstances but in adversity. It is not courage to run towards the front of the dinner line. It is courage to run to the front of the battle.

If you look at @Iconoclast 's posts here would you think that he is a Christian? I doubt it. You'd have to rely on his statement that he is a Christian, not his actions. IMHO that is a problem. It is one I have to address in my life and I believe everyone needs to consider before addressing other people.

This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:5-7

 

As evidence of the truth of my post I can say @Iconoclast is appealing for censorship now.

Sometimes it is difficult to face a post that addresses our sins. I did not take pleasure noting I also struggle with how I respond in arguments. But for me to intitionally pull down blinders and ignore the sin does me no good. It serves as a reminder to me of who I am and who I was.

My post was not an insult but an observation. Iconoclast responds to people who disagrees with him by attacking them and trying to silence them or discredit them. That us an ungodly agenda. It does not demonstrate Christ.

Repentance is a spiritual quality. God disciplines those who belong to Him. We cannot walk in darkness while claiming the Light. This is a Christian truth - the meat of the Word.

And this is for us all. I am no better a person than @Iconoclast. But when I see him continuing this agenda against other people, slandering, insulting and attacking people for whom Christ died, trying to silence anyone who dare disagree with him.... I cannot but say that this is wrong. It is not the reason Christ died. And it mocks the blood shed for us.

 

We can. The problem is when people look upon anyone who disagrees with them as an enemy to be defeated.

I agree with a lot of @Martin Marprelate 's post, but not all. Unfortunately he has proven thus far unable to defend the post in its entirety.