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Spiritual Death ,The Remedy, The Restoration of Sacred Space
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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Agreed, but not so they could meet up in a physical area.
What physical area?
Mmmm......we will dwell physically with God
That isn't what the scripture says it doesn't even come close to that. Since when does the majority of claims set the standard for truth. In fact the majority does not believe in Christ at all. You see the majority would take us all to hell. I could care less of what the Majority believes.
MB
Most, (all?) of those OT verses you listed referred to Jerusalem, Mount Zion, Beulah, "land" (generic), etc.
Isaiah 60 even names specific regions.
Are you saying these are not physical locations?
Zion and Jerusalem was where the worship of the true God was to take place so much so that even the pagan knew about it. Psalm 137:3
The terms became synonymous for the place of the gathered assembly.
It all was in type of the Heavenly Jerusalem .
Hebrews12:22-29
All the ot. References were to transition and point to the Heavenly Zion, and Jerusalem
As much as people with glorified bodies can dwell physically with a spirit.
Are they physical locations? Yes or No?
Part of the issue is it is taking a very questionable idea (sacred space) which has been used in most all (if not all) religions and is a popular new age term and applying it to Scripture. If we stick with Scripture (which I believe is the best way to discuss things) I believe it is referring to what Scripture speaks of as God dwelling in us (the people of God are the “sacred space” called to be a holy people, i.e., “the Bride”).
One of my favorite books is Desiring God. Piper uses a term I am not particularly fond of as well (Christian Hedonism). It strikes me as trying to use worldly language to speak of Christian truths. I like the principle but can see how both terms can be misleading.
With "sacred space" it seems we are looking back to the symbol rather than forward to what it symbolized.
2 pet3:13, Gal4:25-26
I believe it is the gathered assembly, a realm, more than a place with a post office box.
Why would you believe that? Almost every verse you quoted refers to a physical location.
Why would you use the term "sacred space"?
I guess that's my problem with this thread, the term "sacred space".
My other problem is that God's redemptive plan was not to have us assemble somewhere as believers. Sure, we WILL do that, but that's a byproduct of the plan, an incidental happening.
InTheLight,
[Why would you believe that? ]
Because scripture declares it.
[Almost every verse you quoted refers to a physical location.]
We are on earth with physical locations.
Just like Adam had a natural physical body first then a spiritual body...1cor15:44..it is shown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body
There is a natural body, there is a spiritual body.
There are earthy things, there are spiritual things.
Jn3:12....if I have told you earthly things and you do not believe,now will you believe it if I tell you Heavenly things.
Itl, now look again at Hebrews 9 :23-24
[Why would you use the term "sacred space"?]
I used it because it was used in the sermons. It is a term used to denote an intimacy with our Holy God. If God meets with sinners and communes with them it is a sacred encounter.
Adam being expelled from the garden and kept from it Gen3:24
The last Adam restores it with peace and rest.
In doing so He elevates man even higher than he was in his original creation,psalm 8- hebrews2
[I guess that's my problem with this thread, the term "sacred space".
My other problem is that God's redemptive plan was not to have us assemble somewhere as believers. Sure, we WILL do that, but that's a byproduct of the plan, an incidental happening.]
The term is fine as it conveys the correct image.
What pagans and gnostics counterfeit has nothing to do with anything but to distract and poison the well.
[Why would you believe that? ]
Because scripture declares it.
[Almost every verse you quoted refers to a physical location.]
We are on earth with physical locations.
Just like Adam had a natural physical body first then a spiritual body...1cor15:44..it is shown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body
There is a natural body, there is a spiritual body.
There are earthy things, there are spiritual things.
Jn3:12....if I have told you earthly things and you do not believe,now will you believe it if I tell you Heavenly things.
Itl, now look again at Hebrews 9 :23-24
[Why would you use the term "sacred space"?]
I used it because it was used in the sermons. It is a term used to denote an intimacy with our Holy God. If God meets with sinners and communes with them it is a sacred encounter.
Adam being expelled from the garden and kept from it Gen3:24
The last Adam restores it with peace and rest.
In doing so He elevates man even higher than he was in his original creation,psalm 8- hebrews2
[I guess that's my problem with this thread, the term "sacred space".
My other problem is that God's redemptive plan was not to have us assemble somewhere as believers. Sure, we WILL do that, but that's a byproduct of the plan, an incidental happening.]
The term is fine as it conveys the correct image.
What pagans and gnostics counterfeit has nothing to do with anything but to distract and poison the well.
You can rationalize all you want.
The Bible does not use the phrase "sacred space". It does not convey the correct image of redemption. Nor do I get an image of God and man in an intimate relationship. In short, it's a lousy phrase, IMO.
The scriptures do indicate a physical location for Zion, Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Beulah, Promised Land, etc. These locations do not refer to a generic assembly of future believers.
I never mentioned pagans or gnostics, so I don't know why you are bringing that up with me. I will say that yes, "sacred space" sounds, new-agey and so I would never use the phrase.
God's redemptive plan is to destroy evil and rescue humanity from their sinful state through Jesus, his son. The plan is not to assemble us together somewhere spiritually so we can sing Kum Ba Yah.
Is it not through, the redemptive plan, that God the Father through Jesus the Son of God, destroys the evil one and his works?
Hebrews 2:14 ἐπεὶ οὖν τὰ παιδία κεκοινώνηκεν σαρκός καὶ αἵματος καὶ αὐτὸς παραπλησίως μετέσχεν τῶν αὐτῶν ἵνα διὰ τοῦ θανάτου καταργήσῃ τὸν τὸ κράτος ἔχοντα τοῦ θανάτου τοῦτ᾽ ἔστιν τὸν διάβολον
that through the death he might destroy him that had the power of the death, that is, the devil;
The Son of God, born of woman, had to die and then be given the promised hope of God, eternal life, by the Father to destroy the Devil and his works including the death?
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
John 5:21 first part. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Yes, and that is what I said it was.
I understand what @iconolast is getting at with the term "sacred place." The pre-fall Garden was sacred ground in the sense that God was there. Moses was told to remove his sandals because he was on sacred ground, the place where God was. Redemptively, I would probably describe it differently. While the Garden is a type of perfect fellowship with God, we cannot go back there. Our future is with Christ. The types and shadows of the age to come are for our encouragement. They give us hope by displaying God's faithfulness.
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There are several interesting works about the Garden being a Temple (or at least a type of temple) in that it is the place or state where God and man intersects.
God Wells Among Us: Expanding Eden to the Ends of the Earth by G.K. Beale and The Temple and the Tabernacle: A Study of God’s Dwelling by J. Daniel Hays are two that come to mind.
As the OP is on a temporary ban, this thread is closed.
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