Isa. 65-66 and Rev. 21-22. New Heaven and Earth

[asterisktom]

These four chapters are very interesting to study together. The use of the theme of New Heaven and Earth Isa. 65.17 and Rev. 21.1 suggest correlation. I have come to my own conclusions about this but I would first like to ask others here whether

1. they see these two passages as cross-references and
2. they see this as still in our future

Especially interesting is Isa. 65.20

”No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.”

Comparing this with Rev. 21.4

”He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

So in Isaiah we have death and in Revelation we have no more death, both assumedly in the larger setting of the New Heaven and Earth.

Comments?

PS. This is not a gotcha! or a trick question. As a preterist I hate it when opposers clearly misstate my views on a subject. I do not want to be that way to opposing beliefs. I honestly want to know what opinions are here on these passages.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

A few random thoughts:
Isaiah 25:6-8 speaks of the abolition of death 'on this mountain' i.e. the new Jerusalem; compare with 64:25; Revelation 21:10.
The NIV leaves out the initial 'for' in 64:17, which is unfortunate because the word connects 17-25 with what went before, to the promises of 8-10, the threats of 11-12 and the judgments of 13-16.
'New heavens and a new earth' represents the totality of things. (cf. Genesis 1:1). So the 'former things' not only picks up on the 'former troubles' of v.16, but also the old order as a whole. It's gone and rejoicing is the order of the day (vs.18-19).
So v.20, I think we have to interpret figuratively. If there were still death (contra 25:6-8), the voice of weeping would still be heard (v.19). So what it's saying is that whereas in this world, death cuts life short, in the NH&NE one would be a mere child if one died at a hundred, and a sinner 100 years old would be accursed, not that there are any sinners in the New Jerusalem (cf. vs.12,15) Isaiah is using metaphor to say that even if it were possible (it isn't) for a sinner to avoid detection for 100 years, judgement would still find him.
So verse 20 tells us that in the NH&NE, death will have no more power and sin no more presence.
[I've had quite a bit of help from The Prophecy of Isaiah by Alec Motyer here]

 

[asterisktom]

A few random thoughts:
Isaiah 25:6-8 speaks of the abolition of death 'on this mountain' i.e. the new Jerusalem; compare with 64:25; Revelation 21:10.
The NIV leaves out the initial 'for' in 64:17, which is unfortunate because the word connects 17-25 with what went before, to the promises of 8-10, the threats of 11-12 and the judgments of 13-16.
'New heavens and a new earth' represents the totality of things. (cf. Genesis 1:1). So the 'former things' not only picks up on the 'former troubles' of v.16, but also the old order as a whole. It's gone and rejoicing is the order of the day (vs.18-19).
So v.20, I think we have to interpret figuratively. If there were still death (contra 25:6-8), the voice of weeping would still be heard (v.19). So what it's saying is that whereas in this world, death cuts life short, in the NH&NE one would be a mere child if one died at a hundred, and a sinner 100 years old would be accursed, not that there are any sinners in the New Jerusalem (cf. vs.12,15) Isaiah is using metaphor to say that even if it were possible (it isn't) for a sinner to avoid detection for 100 years, judgement would still find him.
So verse 20 tells us that in the NH&NE, death will have no more power and sin no more presence.
[I've had quite a bit of help from The Prophecy of Isaiah by Alec Motyer here]

Thank you for the input. More areas to study.

 

[Yeshua1]

These four chapters are very interesting to study together. The use of the theme of New Heaven and Earth Isa. 65.17 and Rev. 21.1 suggest correlation. I have come to my own conclusions about this but I would first like to ask others here whether

1. they see these two passages as cross-references and
2. they see this as still in our future

Especially interesting is Isa. 65.20

”No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.”

Comparing this with Rev. 21.4

”He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

So in Isaiah we have death and in Revelation we have no more death, both assumedly in the larger setting of the New Heaven and Earth.

Comments?

PS. This is not a gotcha! or a trick question. As a preterist I hate it when opposers clearly misstate my views on a subject. I do not want to be that way to opposing beliefs. I honestly want to know what opinions are here on these passages.

Isaiah describing the future Millennium under Christ, while John sees eternal state!