Purgatory is mentioned in the New Testament!

[Edin Michael]

Jesus claimed that salvation was accomplished and finished by Himself on that cross, yes or no?

It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.

 

[Edin Michael]

I think Jesus is speaking in multiple ways of a binary state ...

[Luke 12:41-48 NASB] 41 Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone [else] as well?" 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, [both] men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect [him] and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know [it,] and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

• faithful or unfaithful
• found ready or not found ready
• care for others or abuse others
• rewarded or cut to pieces
• few punishments or many punishments

Jesus himself seems to clarify the point He was making in the end of verse 48 ... "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." ... which suggests that this is about faithfulness in life rather than eternal destiny. The parables on Heaven and Hell tend to be clearly about judgement and sorting and destinations. This is about none of those.

I think the "money verse" is ... "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves." Here we have a heart that is not true, not Christlike ... a clear Tare among the wheat or a Goat among the sheep waiting to do evil (the true desire of his heart). Such a "Christian" would be unfaithful and abuse others and will not be found ready, so that "Christian" will receive many punishments and be cut to pieces and be thrown among those that are honest in their unbelief, rather than deceptive in a false belief.

I do agree that this has some implications on our life on earth, but it does seem that it goes beyond it while taking into consideration the other verses that talk about the return of the master (Matthew 25). It clearly points towards that Jesus was talking about the Judgement Day where people are separated. In this parable too slaves are judged based on their actions and are rewarded accordingly...one is made in charge of the household...while another is cut into pieces...one is given a severe beating and another a light beating (both receive only a temporary punishments).

 

[Edin Michael]

Parables should never be used to get main theology derived from them. as mainly just teaching one main point of emphasis!

Parables are used to portray religious truths. In Matthew 25 too Jesus uses parables to put forth what to expect during the Judgement Day.

 

[Oseas3]

No, for there is only heaven and the Lake of Fire, what we call Hell!

The Word of God says: Revelation 19:v.20 -
And the Beast was taken (the Beast of sea and his woman, the whore, which rides upon the Beast, that is the Roman Catholic Church) - , and with him the false prophet (the false messiah of the Jews, the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Jewish messiah, the Man of sin, son of perdition, a former Cherub, which will manifest himself as a lamb, a false lamb-Revelation 13:v.11-18 & 2Thes.2:v.9) that wrought miracles before him(before the Beast of sea), with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the Beast, and them(ALL THEIR FOLLOWERS) that worshipped his image. These both will be cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (into the hell's fire).

21 And the remnant were slain with the Sword of him(that is the Word of God) that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of his MOUTH.

Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

JESUS warned: Matt.10:v.28 - Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ---> This prophecy will fulfil LITERALLY even now, in this beginning of the first cenury of the seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day. NOW, EVEN NOW, FROM NOW ON, THE TIME IS OF GOD'S WRATH.

Be prepared you all

 

[Hollow Man]

In Luke 12:43-48 we find Jesus speaking about a returning master and four different types of slaves. The return of the master (Jesus) points towards the impending judgement that awaits each one of us where we find out whether we will enter into the kingdom of God (master’s household) or not. So, what happens when the master returns? If the master finds his slave at work (being faithful and obedient), he will be put in charge of the master’s possessions (enters the household of God, heaven). If the same slave is found to “to beat the other slaves, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk”, he will be cut into pieces (a permanent state) and put with the unfaithful. I.e. he will be cast out of God’s kingdom “into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mat 25:30), hell.

If there was only heaven and hell, Jesus would have stopped here. But we find him going on to talk about two more types of slaves. The third kind of slave “knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted”. As for the fourth slave, he “did not know and did what deserved a beating”. It should be noted that both the third and the fourth did not abuse others (beat other slaves) or abuse himself (get drunk) like the second one but where just not ready for the master’s return. Both of them receive a severe and a light beating correspondingly, a temporary punishment, but in the end, they are not cast out of the master’s household.

Is not Jesus talking about a temporary state of punishment - Purgatory?

No, this is not analogous to the heretical Catholic teaching of Purgatory.

If Christ's atonement is sufficient, then why do you believe there is a need for a place where believers must go to expiate their own sins?

 

[Garrett20]

Parables are used to portray religious truths. In Matthew 25 too Jesus uses parables to put forth what to expect during the Judgement Day.

Hello Edin, thank you for sharing. I agree with you here. Jesus uses parables often to teach kingdom truths but two things to consider:

1) It’s important not to over-allegorize the Lord’s parables. Doing so could practically lead to ANY interpretation.

2) Your interpretation of this parable contradicts the parable taught in Luke 16 by Jesus of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Dives in Latin). When the Rich Man died, he lifted his eyes in torments. The poor man Lazarus was immediately in Abraham’s Bosom. This parable would then be excluding Purgatory. In fact, when the Rich Man wanted to go back and warn his family, he was told he couldn’t and that his family had the Scriptures, which were sufficient enough.

 

[Walpole]

No, this is not analogous to the heretical Catholic teaching of Purgatory.

If Christ's atonement is sufficient, then why do you believe there is a need for a place where believers must go to expiate their own sins?

If you do not need to expiate your sins, then perhaps you can explain why Protestants suffer death.

For death is the ultimate example of the temporal punishment due for sin. If you believe that nullifies the cross, you need to explain how you plan on getting out of here without suffering death. Perhaps trying to stick it out until the Eschaton?

 

[Adonia]

No, this is not analogous to the heretical Catholic teaching of Purgatory.

If Christ's atonement is sufficient, then why do you believe there is a need for a place where believers must go to expiate their own sins?

Because nothing unclean can get into heaven. The better scripture for the existence of purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. "For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire".

What scriptural interpretation is, it is just us trying to figure them out. Jesus taught in parables and they needed to be figured out too. The whole exercise is nothing more than a way to make us think critically.

 

[Yeshua1]

Then why the mention of the two slaves who receive only temporary punishment? Both Heaven and Hell would be eternal, not temporary.

Never use parables to prove theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

If you do not need to expiate your sins, then perhaps you can explain why Protestants suffer death.

For death is the ultimate example of the temporal punishment due for sin. If you believe that nullifies the cross, you need to explain how you plan on getting out of here without suffering death. Perhaps trying to stick it out until the Eschaton?

Did the death of Jesus pay for nd atone for all our sins, or does it allow God to save us now, but put us on probationary period, to see if we will really merit it after death?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, this is not analogous to the heretical Catholic teaching of Purgatory.

If Christ's atonement is sufficient, then why do you believe there is a need for a place where believers must go to expiate their own sins?

Indeed, as Jesus declared with a yell that salvation was accomplished/finished now, so either he lied, or the RCC is wrong on this!

 

[Walpole]

Did the death of Jesus pay for nd atone for all our sins, or does it allow God to save us now, but put us on probationary period, to see if we will really merit it after death?

Christ made atonement with his passion, death and resurrection. This is Christianity 101.

What is also Christianity 101 is that His atonement does not remove the temporal punishment due to your sin. If it did, you would not suffer death, which is the ultimate example of the temporal punishment due to sin.

Hence you accept purgatory, whether they acknowledge it or not, unless you have a plan on escaping death.

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ made atonement with his passion, death and resurrection. This is Christianity 101.

What is also Christianity 101 is that His atonement does not remove the temporal punishment due to your sin. If it did, you would not suffer death, which is the ultimate example of the temporal punishment due to sin.

Hence you accept purgatory, whether they acknowledge it or not, unless you have a plan on escaping death.

none who have been saved ever really die, as we either shall be glorified when Jesus returns, or else our soul departs to be with Jesus, as Paul longed for!

 

[Walpole]

none who have been saved ever really die, as we either shall be glorified when Jesus returns, or else our soul departs to be with Jesus, as Paul longed for!

I hate to break it to you, but you will suffer a physical death. You will die one day because it is the ultimate temporal punishment for your sins.

---> Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

---> Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

---> James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

 

[David Kent]

Christ made atonement with his passion, death and resurrection. This is Christianity 101.

What is also Christianity 101 is that His atonement does not remove the temporal punishment due to your sin. If it did, you would not suffer death, which is the ultimate example of the temporal punishment due to sin.

Hence you accept purgatory, whether they acknowledge it or not, unless you have a plan on escaping death.

Nonsense

 

[Walpole]

Nonsense

If it’s nonsense that the rest of us poor saps will suffer a physical death, how do you plan on avoiding it and hence the temporal punishment due for your sins?

 

[Adonia]

I hate to break it to you, but you will suffer a physical death. You will die one day because it is the ultimate temporal punishment for your sins.

---> Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

---> Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

---> James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

As I continue on into my 63rd year, all sorts of things are happening to my body. I think I am getting closer by the day.

 

[Adonia]

none who have been saved ever really die, as we either shall be glorified when Jesus returns, or else our soul departs to be with Jesus, as Paul longed for!

Which is exactly the reason why those saints who have gone before us can pray for us who remain. You are finally getting it! (LOL)

 

[Adonia]

Indeed, as Jesus declared with a yell that salvation was accomplished/finished now, so either he lied, or the RCC is wrong on this!

So please explain 1 Cor 3 11-15. Those words mean nothing, just some scriptural filler perhaps?

 

[Walpole]

As I continue on into my 63rd year, all sorts of things are happening to my body. I think I am getting closer by the day.

I can relate!

God bless.