Featured Reformers' interpretations of the AntiChrist

We got different ideas on how grace will cover your sin.

The difference is some believe God will actually heal us rather than place a handicap T-shirt over us and smuggle us into heaven.

Scripture says NOTHING IMPURE can enter heaven. Revelations 21:27

Sin is not a perk, The punishment of sin is not worst then the sin itself. The SIN is the problem, the disease.

Every time you sin you are suffering in fear however subtle, the suffering and fear is there. As a Parent you want your child to overcome this and not remain a slave to sin.

It sounds like(not saying you are) echoing o'well lets just keep sinning.

Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?


We absolutely agree that YOUR IDEA of PURGATORY does not exist.

The idea there is NO PURGATORY is INSANE.

Whats your definition of purgatory? Its whatever an anti-catholic indoctrinated you to believe, That those Mary worshiping papists have a limbo land that's like a diet hell that people are punish or working out a payment to enter heaven.

Listen to OUR definition.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

We don't say well we know exactly where it is, how its done, nothing like that.

Purgatory to this final purification of the elect A clensing purificaiton. The last one.

We go through cleansing all the time.

2 Corinthians 7
1Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

So off the bat whatever was your LAST CLEANSING is a purgatory.


We think your body will be glorified. I don't think they going to hand you a clone.

Philippians 3

21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.


If you have a problem with OUR definition of Purgatory, It would be the first time I ever heard someone doing so.

I've heard THOUSANDS having a problem with THEIR OWN definition.

The reason is SOOOOOO easy for us to debate. We never get a chance to defend from something we actually believe. We are always defending some made up thing to vilify us.

I believe Mary is God, no. I believe in works based salvation, no. I don't believe faith saves us, no. Purgatory is diet hell, no.
You worship statues, no. You believe God is not sovereign,no. You worship the pope, no. The bible has no authority, no.

All the others say we are in league with the devil, we are told the opposite, people who oppose us in good conscience are honorable. We call them brothers and sisters. We are told to love our enemies.

 

Yes he did - and there were heresies, like the like the Gnostics.

 

Your domineering murderous lot destroyed the evidence when you mercilessly persecuted the flesh of the True Christians. The True Church was perpetually persecuted by Rome. Praise God, you couldn't touch their eternally saved soul.

 

Well if your a Calvinist who believes they don't have free will, why are you arguing with us instead of praying to God to shove his hand up our shirt and work us like a puppet the right way?

 

NOBODY can snatch us out of God's hand.
This is as much a warning as it is a word of encouragement.

The warning is that just because we are secure and safe from others pulling us away from God - WE need to be on our guard that WE don't walk away. That's why we are always reminded to stay vigilant and sober-minded, enduring to the end.

And once again, I give you the example of Jerusalem:
Remember what Christ told Jerusalem:
Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

THEY were unwilling - and they were God's chosen people.
HE chose them - and they turned their collective backs on Him.

 

Ahhhh, another historically-ignorant anti-Catholic.
there is PLENTY of blood on both sides, IF you know your history.

 

There is no blood on the hands of the persecuted. Your "Church" shall be destroyed.

 

No matter what your fellow anti-Catholic friends tell you - ignorance is NOT bliss . . .

 

I notice you completely avoid Romans 8.

 

It's sad how you look so hard to find a way by which you can flee from the hand of your God. How sad God must be to see you look for ways by which you can run from him and thus declare that it was your works that both damned you and your works that have saved you.
Honestly, you have completely ignored Jesus promises and God's promises in the Epistles. I dust my sandals off as you desperately attempt to win God's affection by your self-righteousness.

 

All of this phony sanctimony - yet you can't refute ANY of the Scriptural evidence I've presented . . .

 

I have provided 3 chapters in Romans alone, plus the very words of Jesus. All of these provide the refutation you are denying.

 

But not a single refutation of the at least TEN passages of dire warnings to Christians not to fall back into darkness or they will LOSE their security. Not ONE.

Nothing in Romans 6 or Romans 8 or John 10:14-18, 24-30 cancels out ANY of the following warnings to converted, born-again CHRISTIANS:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

And it's equally sad to see such arrogance among Christians who actually believe that they can do whatever they want after being "saved" and NEVER lose their security - even when the Word of God tells them they CAN.

I fear for such people . . .

 

Like your church, you attempt to prooftext and ignore context. Each and every passage you have shared actually proves your argument wrong when you read the context of the entire passage. Will you agree to observe the entire context or will you continue to try force God to say something that he isn't saying?

Here, let me show you a version of what you are doing. Read the following verse by itself and what is it telling you?

Luke 4:7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.”

Now, read the passage around it to get context.

Luke 4:1-13 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’” And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,’ and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’” And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time.

 

Again, you are projecting a false understanding of my position.

Paul tells us that we are to build. However, even here we see God saves the poor builder from the fire.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

 

Nice try - but I HAVE read the context of these passages.
What I haven't seen is a solid refutation of the explanations I posted below each passage.

I even isolated TWO of the passages in a previous post - and NOBODY was able to refute them
Here they are again for your review:

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

I'm only asking you to deal with these TWO passages for now.
Please refute the whole "Epignosis" argument before moving onto anything else because these passages hinge on this word . . .

 

This is an illustration of Final Purgation (Purgatory).
The person suffers loss but is eventually SAVED.

This CAN'T be Heaven because the person suffers.
This CAN'T be Hell because the person is eventually saved.
This is describing a THIRD state - a state of final purification of our own will to comply perfectly with GOD's will.

 

Let us look at Hebrews 10 so that it becomes obvious to all that Jesus paid once and for all the elect.

Hebrews 10:1-39 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.

Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

In Hebrews 10 we see the writer telling his readers that if they return to the law and works, they will have turned their back on God's saving grace. They would have no hope of salvation via works. Their self-righteousness would not save them. Only faith in the gracious work of Christ would save them.

So, @MarysSon, your passage in Hebrews 10 actually condemns your teaching that unconfessed sin will condemn the Christian to hell because, as you claim, Christ only died for past sins, not present or future sins.
Hebrews 10 proves your belief to be entirely wrong.

Shall we go to you next prooftext so you can see your error or is this enough to change your mind?

 

Now for 2 Peter 2.


2 Peter 2:1-22 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

So, @MarysSon, we see that Peter is talking about the false prophets that are in the church. We see that they are the ones teaching salvation by works (the very teaching of your church by the way) and they are destined for destruction.

This very passage condemns your teaching and proves that you are speaking as a false prophet because your church is speaking as a false prophet.
I urge you to repent and flee the false teaching you have embraced.

Do I need to continue to show the error of your prooftexting?

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