The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same Law..

[Hobie]

It was always God intention that the Law be written in the heart. Compare..

Ezekiel 11:19-20 King James Version (KJV)
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jeremiah 31:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

To give a example from today, it is like the speeding law, the local roads can be set at 30 while out on the interstate it can be 70 or more, but it is based on the same law and issue.

 

[Hobie]

Here is a good explanation I came across..."Many assume that, because Jesus Christ instituted the New Covenant, God's laws are thereby made obsolete. They lean on this argument to ignore His commandments. But what does Jesus Himself say?....

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill [actually ‘fill to the full,’ meaning fully explain or fully express]. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away [and they clearly haven’t passed away], one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:17-19)....

Notice how Hebrews 10:16-17 summarizes the New Covenant: “ ‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.’ Then He adds, ‘Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.’” This is perfectly consistent with Christ’s words. God’s laws aren’t annulled under the New Covenant; they are written into our hearts and minds so we might obey Him better.

A new covenant wasn’t needed because the laws included in the Old Covenant were inadequate or faulty. Rather, the New Covenant was needed because, as Hebrews 8:8 tells us, “God found fault with the people . . .” ...The fault was in the nature of the people themselves (Hebrews 8:7-9)—the fact that human beings are hostile to God’s laws rather than spiritually minded and willing to obey (see Romans 8:5-8).

What people need to have changed is their heart, not the laws that define sin—"
God's Law and the New Covenant

 

[canadyjd]

Eph.2:14-15 “For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances.......”

Jesus abolished the “Law of commandments” when He died on the cross, thus fulfilling the every jot and tittle.

There is no need to continue to keep the OT Law. We have Jesus instead.

peace to you

 

[Hobie]

Eph.2:14-15 “For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances.......”

Jesus abolished the “Law of commandments” when He died on the cross, thus fulfilling the every jot and tittle.

There is no need to continue to keep the OT Law. We have Jesus instead.

peace to you

Notice it says "ordinances", so Paul here refers to the ceremonial rituals, particularly the law of circumcision, that divided the Jew and the Gentile. The Cross abolished this law but not the Ten Commandments, for there is nothing in the
moral law that divides between Jew or Gentile. Look at what Christ says....

Matthew 5:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[canadyjd]

Notice it says "ordinances", so Paul here refers to the ceremonial rituals, particularly the law of circumcision, that divided the Jew and the Gentile. The Cross abolished this law but not the Ten Commandments, for there is nothing in the
moral law that divides between Jew or Gentile. Look at what Christ says....

Matthew 5:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Notice it says “The Law of commandments....” The OT Law has been abolished by Jesus’s death on the cross. This verse is very clear.

I don’t believe there is any way to reconcile your beliefs with this verse.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Notice it says “The Law of commandments....” The OT Law has been abolished by Jesus’s death on the cross. This verse is very clear.

I don’t believe there is any way to reconcile your beliefs with this verse.

peace to you

Remember what Paul said to those who tried to be justified by the Law ?

 

[robycop3]

While Jesus didn't ABOLISH the law, He abolished the Old Covenant, and FULFILLED much of it. He added the "Golden Rule", that is, do to others as you would have others do to you. He also added to believe in Him as Savior. And He later told paul that gentiles were not bound by the religious ceremonial laws given to Israel. Paul made that very plain in Col.2.

 

[canadyjd]

While Jesus didn't ABOLISH the law, He abolished the Old Covenant, and FULFILLED much of it. He added the "Golden Rule", that is, do to others as you would have others do to you. He also added to believe in Him as Savior. And He later told paul that gentiles were not bound by the religious ceremonial laws given to Israel. Paul made that very plain in Col.2.

Eph. 2:14-15 is clear. Jesus abolished the “Law of commandments” with His death on the cross. Paul is also clear that if you want part of the Law as requirement for salvation, you have to keep it all.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

While Jesus didn't ABOLISH the law, He abolished the Old Covenant, and FULFILLED much of it. He added the "Golden Rule", that is, do to others as you would have others do to you. He also added to believe in Him as Savior. And He later told paul that gentiles were not bound by the religious ceremonial laws given to Israel. Paul made that very plain in Col.2.

so are you saying that the Lord still requires the OT thithe?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

It was always God intention that the Law be written in the heart. Compare..

Ezekiel 11:19-20 King James Version (KJV)
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jeremiah 31:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

To give a example from today, it is like the speeding law, the local roads can be set at 30 while out on the interstate it can be 70 or more, but it is based on the same law and issue.

How do you interpret Acts 15?

 

[robycop3]

so are you saying that the Lord still requires the OT thithe?

No; Jesus fulfilled all sacrificial aspects of the law, but just as, humanly speaking, military conscription laws, though now inactive, are still in the boox, God's law is still in His book, although He has left off enforcing it.

 

[Hobie]

How do you interpret Acts 15?

There is.God's Law which is the Ten Commandments which He wrote with His own finger and is unchanging. Then you have the ceremonial law or ordinances which were done away at the cross. Here is a very straightforward explanation...

"This Holy law was spoken by God, written by God, recorded on tables of stone, and is of eternal duration. At the same time the ceremonial law, of temporary usage, was also delivered to the children of Israel. This law dealt with the ceremonial rites of the Jewish sanctuary service, and concerned itself with a system of religion that passed away at the cross. Large sections of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy describe in detail this temporary law. The ceremonial law can easily be identified in scripture. It talks about circumcision (a religious Jewish rite), sacrifices, offerings, purifications, holy days and other rites associated with the Hebrew sanctuary service.

God's Word speaks of two great laws. Law number 1 is the law of God (the Ten Commandments, or Two tablets of the Testimony,) also known as the moral law and the Decalogue. Law number 2 is the Law of Moses (the “Book of the Law,” or “Book of the Covenant”), also known as the Mosaic Law, the Ordinances and the Ceremonial Law. Is there a relationship between these two laws? Absolutely. If an Israelite sinned, he broke law number 1, the moral law being the Ten Commandments. He then had to bring his offering according to law number 2, the sacrificial law to receive forgiveness. This is the relationship between these two laws. Law number 1 defines sin, as sin is the transgression of the moral law, the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4). Law number 2 defined sacrifices which was the remedy for sin.

If the Israelite sinned, he broke the first law. To make atonement for his sin he had to obey the second law. As can be clearly seen, here are two very distinct laws of which this fact is unmistakable. Jesus Christ permanently took the place of law number 2 when He cried out “It is finished” and bowed His head and died. When the unseen hand tore the temple curtain from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51), this signified that this sacrificial law system was once and for all time nailed to the cross."...Ceremonial Law And Moral Law

 

[Yeshua1]

There is.God's Law which is the Ten Commandments which He wrote with His own finger and is unchanging. Then you have the ceremonial law or ordinances which were done away at the cross. Here is a very straightforward explanation...

"This Holy law was spoken by God, written by God, recorded on tables of stone, and is of eternal duration. At the same time the ceremonial law, of temporary usage, was also delivered to the children of Israel. This law dealt with the ceremonial rites of the Jewish sanctuary service, and concerned itself with a system of religion that passed away at the cross. Large sections of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy describe in detail this temporary law. The ceremonial law can easily be identified in scripture. It talks about circumcision (a religious Jewish rite), sacrifices, offerings, purifications, holy days and other rites associated with the Hebrew sanctuary service.

God's Word speaks of two great laws. Law number 1 is the law of God (the Ten Commandments, or Two tablets of the Testimony,) also known as the moral law and the Decalogue. Law number 2 is the Law of Moses (the “Book of the Law,” or “Book of the Covenant”), also known as the Mosaic Law, the Ordinances and the Ceremonial Law. Is there a relationship between these two laws? Absolutely. If an Israelite sinned, he broke law number 1, the moral law being the Ten Commandments. He then had to bring his offering according to law number 2, the sacrificial law to receive forgiveness. This is the relationship between these two laws. Law number 1 defines sin, as sin is the transgression of the moral law, the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4). Law number 2 defined sacrifices which was the remedy for sin.

If the Israelite sinned, he broke the first law. To make atonement for his sin he had to obey the second law. As can be clearly seen, here are two very distinct laws of which this fact is unmistakable. Jesus Christ permanently took the place of law number 2 when He cried out “It is finished” and bowed His head and died. When the unseen hand tore the temple curtain from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51), this signified that this sacrificial law system was once and for all time nailed to the cross."...Ceremonial Law And Moral Law

He kept all aspects of the Law, so it was accomplished in full my salvation, so not under the Law in any way to save or keep me saved, but still obey its moral aspects....The Sabbath of Israel was never brought back over to keep for us now under Grace, but other 9 were!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

There is.God's Law which is the Ten Commandments which He wrote with His own finger and is unchanging. Then you have the ceremonial law or ordinances which were done away at the cross. Here is a very straightforward explanation...

"This Holy law was spoken by God, written by God, recorded on tables of stone, and is of eternal duration. At the same time the ceremonial law, of temporary usage, was also delivered to the children of Israel. This law dealt with the ceremonial rites of the Jewish sanctuary service, and concerned itself with a system of religion that passed away at the cross. Large sections of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy describe in detail this temporary law. The ceremonial law can easily be identified in scripture. It talks about circumcision (a religious Jewish rite), sacrifices, offerings, purifications, holy days and other rites associated with the Hebrew sanctuary service.

God's Word speaks of two great laws. Law number 1 is the law of God (the Ten Commandments, or Two tablets of the Testimony,) also known as the moral law and the Decalogue. Law number 2 is the Law of Moses (the “Book of the Law,” or “Book of the Covenant”), also known as the Mosaic Law, the Ordinances and the Ceremonial Law. Is there a relationship between these two laws? Absolutely. If an Israelite sinned, he broke law number 1, the moral law being the Ten Commandments. He then had to bring his offering according to law number 2, the sacrificial law to receive forgiveness. This is the relationship between these two laws. Law number 1 defines sin, as sin is the transgression of the moral law, the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4). Law number 2 defined sacrifices which was the remedy for sin.

If the Israelite sinned, he broke the first law. To make atonement for his sin he had to obey the second law. As can be clearly seen, here are two very distinct laws of which this fact is unmistakable. Jesus Christ permanently took the place of law number 2 when He cried out “It is finished” and bowed His head and died. When the unseen hand tore the temple curtain from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51), this signified that this sacrificial law system was once and for all time nailed to the cross."...Ceremonial Law And Moral Law

The Decalogue does not contain every moral law. How do you explain Leviticus 18?

The Torah is the Law, and other books in the old testament are the Prophets.

Gentiles are free from the Torah except for those laws given in Acts 15. That said, the New Testament is full of commands to live by, often more difficult than the Torah. The Prophets, I will argue, also have commands we are to live by in light of being Gentiles not bound by the Torah. These new Laws of Christ cut to the heart, and are only kept by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[canadyjd]

There is.God's Law which is the Ten Commandments which He wrote with His own finger.....If an Israelite sinned, he broke law number 1, the moral law being the Ten Commandments. He then had to bring his offering according to law number 2, the sacrificial law to receive forgiveness. ....

The sacrificial laws only dealt with unintentional sin. If the sin was intentional (sin of the high hand) there was no sacrifice that could be made for forgiveness. There was no penitence to be done to earn forgiveness, and never had been.

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

The Decalogue does not contain every moral law. How do you explain Leviticus 18?

The Torah is the Law, and other books in the old testament are the Prophets.

Gentiles are free from the Torah except for those laws given in Acts 15. That said, the New Testament is full of commands to live by, often more difficult than the Torah. The Prophets, I will argue, also have commands we are to live by in light of being Gentiles not bound by the Torah. These new Laws of Christ cut to the heart, and are only kept by the power of the Holy Spirit.

We keep the Law of God due to us being saved, having new natures, out of gratitude, he keeps them in order to get right with God and keep right with God!

 

[robycop3]

There is.God's Law which is the Ten Commandments which He wrote with His own finger and is unchanging. Then you have the ceremonial law or ordinances which were done away at the cross. Here is a very straightforward explanation...

"This Holy law was spoken by God, written by God, recorded on tables of stone, and is of eternal duration. At the same time the ceremonial law, of temporary usage, was also delivered to the children of Israel. This law dealt with the ceremonial rites of the Jewish sanctuary service, and concerned itself with a system of religion that passed away at the cross. Large sections of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy describe in detail this temporary law. The ceremonial law can easily be identified in scripture. It talks about circumcision (a religious Jewish rite), sacrifices, offerings, purifications, holy days and other rites associated with the Hebrew sanctuary service.

God's Word speaks of two great laws. Law number 1 is the law of God (the Ten Commandments, or Two tablets of the Testimony,) also known as the moral law and the Decalogue. Law number 2 is the Law of Moses (the “Book of the Law,” or “Book of the Covenant”), also known as the Mosaic Law, the Ordinances and the Ceremonial Law. Is there a relationship between these two laws? Absolutely. If an Israelite sinned, he broke law number 1, the moral law being the Ten Commandments. He then had to bring his offering according to law number 2, the sacrificial law to receive forgiveness. This is the relationship between these two laws. Law number 1 defines sin, as sin is the transgression of the moral law, the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4). Law number 2 defined sacrifices which was the remedy for sin.

If the Israelite sinned, he broke the first law. To make atonement for his sin he had to obey the second law. As can be clearly seen, here are two very distinct laws of which this fact is unmistakable. Jesus Christ permanently took the place of law number 2 when He cried out “It is finished” and bowed His head and died. When the unseen hand tore the temple curtain from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51), this signified that this sacrificial law system was once and for all time nailed to the cross."...Ceremonial Law And Moral Law

I read your link, especially the article about Col. 2:16 Your boy is stumped on that one.

Again, the sabbath was given ONLY TO ISRAEL, same as the passover. And nowhere in Scripture is there any command for any gentile to observe the sabbath.

People say, "Well Paul kept sabbaths." OF COURSE he did! He was a JEW ! he also observed passover for the same reason. The Israelis, including, of course, the Jews, were commanded to keep passovers & sabbaths FOR EVER. But no GENTILE (non-Israeli) was ever commanded to keep those occasions.

 

[Hobie]

I read your link, especially the article about Col. 2:16 Your boy is stumped on that one.

Again, the sabbath was given ONLY TO ISRAEL, same as the passover. And nowhere in Scripture is there any command for any gentile to observe the sabbath.

People say, "Well Paul kept sabbaths." OF COURSE he did! He was a JEW ! he also observed passover for the same reason. The Israelis, including, of course, the Jews, were commanded to keep passovers & sabbaths FOR EVER. But no GENTILE (non-Israeli) was ever commanded to keep those occasions.

That's just a good explanation I came across, if you want to get into a Adventist site, this is the one I would check..
What moral laws beside the 10 commandments do we still need to keep? (Audio) | Bible Question Archive | Amazing Facts

 

[Hobie]

The sacrificial laws only dealt with unintentional sin. If the sin was intentional (sin of the high hand) there was no sacrifice that could be made for forgiveness. There was no penitence to be done to earn forgiveness, and never had been.

peace to you

Need to look at the words of Christ...

Matthew 12:31-32 King James Version (KJV)
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[canadyjd]

Need to look at the words of Christ...

Matthew 12:31-32 King James Version (KJV)
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Right. Under the New Covenant, forgiveness of all sin comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, directly given to each sinner who asks God without going through any man but only through the only High Priest that exists; our Lord Jesus.

Under the OT Law, forgiveness of unintentional sin came through a sacrificial system. There was no provision for intentional sin found in OT Law.

peace to you