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The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same Law..

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
I have right now Imputed by God to me the righteousness of Jesus, what is better then that?
Well, the fullness of the imputed, combined with the imparted righteousness, for without the latter half, the first is useless, and likewise the latter without the first.

To say that one is righteous (right-doing; imputed; Romans 4:3; James 2:23) without actually being made (imparted) righteous (Romans 5:19; James 2:21-22) would be a lie, or at least hypocrisy. Abraham believed, and because he believed, he so acted (John 8:39).

For faith is given unto us (as unto Abraham) so that we may exercise it, to live accordingly (live righteously), see Romans 1:17, 2:26, etc. The "faith of Jesus" is not "faith in Jesus". The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to Calvary, to perfect obedience, even unto the death, the death of a cross. The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to do, to act, and so He could say, I have kept my Father's commandments. For what so ever is not of faith (meaning the act that comes, or doesn't come) is sin, which would be transgression of the Law of God.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Amen! In regards to Matthew 5:20 - "unless your righteousness shall exceed that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven," this statement from Jesus would come as a shock to the multitude of people who had great admiration of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, for their knowledge of the law and seeming righteousness and holiness in external observance of the law, yet Jesus points out their righteousness was defective.

Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:3-4, "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES."

The righteousness that exceeds the "righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees" (self righteousness) is the righteousness of God which is from God by faith.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Romans 3:21 - But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference.

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
the ONLY hope for any of us here is that Jesus is our High priest and mediator, unlike Sda, where they do not have Him in those roles, but must be good enough themselves!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, the fullness of the imputed, combined with the imparted righteousness, for without the latter half, the first is useless, and likewise the latter without the first.

To say that one is righteous (right-doing; imputed; Romans 4:3; James 2:23) without actually being made (imparted) righteous (Romans 5:19; James 2:21-22) would be a lie, or at least hypocrisy. Abraham believed, and because he believed, he so acted (John 8:39).

For faith is given unto us (as unto Abraham) so that we may exercise it, to live accordingly (live righteously), see Romans 1:17, 2:26, etc. The "faith of Jesus" is not "faith in Jesus". The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to Calvary, to perfect obedience, even unto the death, the death of a cross. The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to do, to act, and so He could say, I have kept my Father's commandments. For what so ever is not of faith (meaning the act that comes, or doesn't come) is sin, which would be transgression of the Law of God.
Jesus fully justifies us by Grace alone by faith alone, and we will receive full sanctification when glorified!
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
the ONLY hope for any of us here is that Jesus is our High priest and mediator, unlike Sda, where they do not have Him in those roles ...!
I almost guffawed at that statement due to its sheer boldness of incorrectness. Please ~ no really, p l e a s e, do yourself, and all of us here, one thing, and one thing only as a kindness. Just go to the following site and type in either priest, high priest, priestly, ministration, administer, mediator, or such like words in connection with the words Jesus, Christ, Son of God and such like words - Ellen G. White Writings

Humour me, is all I ask.
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
Jesus fully justifies us by Grace alone by faith alone, and we will receive full sanctification when glorified!
You seem to be strongly suggesting that the strength provided by Jesus Christ, from Calvary, is insufficient to grant anyone victory (permanently) over all temptation and sin in the here and now, is that a correct assessment of your position?
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
... we will receive full sanctification when glorified!
What do you think that the following (highlighted) sentences in these verses mean?

Hab_2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.​
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
... we will receive full sanctification when glorified!
In matters of glorification, and sanctification:

Do you believe that Jesus is in Heaven now meditating before the Father right now?

[sub "if"] If so, does Jesus ever stop that mediation? Continuing with the "if": Will Jesus still be in Heaven when that mediation is ceased? Will God's people still be on earth when Jesus ceases mediation in Heaven? Does glorification of the mind/heart take place before glorification of the body?

[sub "if"] If you do not believe that Jesus ever ceases mediation before the Father, how then does Jesus return to the earth? Continuing with the "if": If Jesus does not return to the earth, because Jesus needs to eternally mediate, how will glorification ever take place?
Please answer the "if" route that you closely align with.
 

Alofa Atu

Well-Known Member
The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same Law..
Some helpful materials for those reading.

There are two glories spoken of in 2 Corinthians 3.

[1] the glory of the law of God

[2] the glory of Moses face.​

The context and the koine Greek endings demonstrate that the 2n glory was "done away" with.

Look:

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.​

There are several things in 2 Corinthians 3.

[1] Law (God's Ten Commandments, His Character, doesn't change, stays, "remaineth")

[2] ministration (changes), how the Law is administered


[3] glories (differing glories)

The glory of the Law as seen in Moses face goes away

the glory of the Law in the life and face of Jesus Christ remaineth and is more glorious.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

[4] Mediator (differing mediators)

Moses ('old covenant'; Exodus 19:8)

Jesus (eternal covenant; Malachi 2:5; Jeremiah 31; Hebrews 8, etc)​

[5] location (differing locations)

tables of stone

tables of the fleshy heart (the brain is two hemispheres, two tables)​

[6] Holy Ghost (doesn't change)

The Law of God brings death, why?

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom_7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.​

But it was ordained to Life, not death.

Through the Holy Ghost, who writes the "my (God's) law" upon the heart, the Law is able to be fulfilled in the life:

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I almost guffawed at that statement due to its sheer boldness of incorrectness. Please ~ no really, p l e a s e, do yourself, and all of us here, one thing, and one thing only as a kindness. Just go to the following site and type in either priest, high priest, priestly, ministration, administer, mediator, or such like words in connection with the words Jesus, Christ, Son of God and such like words - Ellen G. White Writings

Humour me, is all I ask.


You mean like when during the IJ, none will have Jesus to mediate for their behalf, as they will need to be as perfect in keeping the law as He was able to?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You seem to be strongly suggesting that the strength provided by Jesus Christ, from Calvary, is insufficient to grant anyone victory (permanently) over all temptation and sin in the here and now, is that a correct assessment of your position?
None will reach a sinless perfection state!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What do you think that the following (highlighted) sentences in these verses mean?

Hab_2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.​
faith is the very gift of God to those chosen in Christ Jesus, so we will not be faithless!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In matters of glorification, and sanctification:

Do you believe that Jesus is in Heaven now meditating before the Father right now?

[sub "if"] If so, does Jesus ever stop that mediation? Continuing with the "if": Will Jesus still be in Heaven when that mediation is ceased? Will God's people still be on earth when Jesus ceases mediation in Heaven? Does glorification of the mind/heart take place before glorification of the body?

[sub "if"] If you do not believe that Jesus ever ceases mediation before the Father, how then does Jesus return to the earth? Continuing with the "if": If Jesus does not return to the earth, because Jesus needs to eternally mediate, how will glorification ever take place?
Please answer the "if" route that you closely align with.
Jesus is our High priest , and he will continue to function in that state until time that he is enthroned here on earth as the King over His Kingdom!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some helpful materials for those reading.

There are two glories spoken of in 2 Corinthians 3.

[1] the glory of the law of God

[2] the glory of Moses face.​

The context and the koine Greek endings demonstrate that the 2n glory was "done away" with.

Look:

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.​

There are several things in 2 Corinthians 3.

[1] Law (God's Ten Commandments, His Character, doesn't change, stays, "remaineth")

[2] ministration (changes), how the Law is administered


[3] glories (differing glories)

The glory of the Law as seen in Moses face goes away

the glory of the Law in the life and face of Jesus Christ remaineth and is more glorious.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

[4] Mediator (differing mediators)

Moses ('old covenant'; Exodus 19:8)

Jesus (eternal covenant; Malachi 2:5; Jeremiah 31; Hebrews 8, etc)​
[5] location (differing locations)

tables of stone

tables of the fleshy heart (the brain is two hemispheres, two tables)​
[6] Holy Ghost (doesn't change)

The Law of God brings death, why?

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom_7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.​
But it was ordained to Life, not death.

Through the Holy Ghost, who writes the "my (God's) law" upon the heart, the Law is able to be fulfilled in the life:

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​
Mosaic Law was the OC given by God to Israel, and now that has been superceded, replaced by the NC!
Per paul , The LAW NEVER justified any in sight of God, but it does point us to Jesus, the end of the law for all who believe!
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Well, the fullness of the imputed, combined with the imparted righteousness, for without the latter half, the first is useless, and likewise the latter without the first.

To say that one is righteous (right-doing; imputed; Romans 4:3; James 2:23) without actually being made (imparted) righteous (Romans 5:19; James 2:21-22) would be a lie, or at least hypocrisy. Abraham believed, and because he believed, he so acted (John 8:39).

For faith is given unto us (as unto Abraham) so that we may exercise it, to live accordingly (live righteously), see Romans 1:17, 2:26, etc. The "faith of Jesus" is not "faith in Jesus". The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to Calvary, to perfect obedience, even unto the death, the death of a cross. The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to do, to act, and so He could say, I have kept my Father's commandments. For what so ever is not of faith (meaning the act that comes, or doesn't come) is sin, which would be transgression of the Law of God.
Very true..
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
So what happens if we come to the end still full of sin and iniquity....

Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
 
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