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Featured The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same Law..

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Well, the fullness of the imputed, combined with the imparted righteousness, for without the latter half, the first is useless, and likewise the latter without the first.

    To say that one is righteous (right-doing; imputed; Romans 4:3; James 2:23) without actually being made (imparted) righteous (Romans 5:19; James 2:21-22) would be a lie, or at least hypocrisy. Abraham believed, and because he believed, he so acted (John 8:39).

    For faith is given unto us (as unto Abraham) so that we may exercise it, to live accordingly (live righteously), see Romans 1:17, 2:26, etc. The "faith of Jesus" is not "faith in Jesus". The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to Calvary, to perfect obedience, even unto the death, the death of a cross. The "faith of Jesus" brought Him to do, to act, and so He could say, I have kept my Father's commandments. For what so ever is not of faith (meaning the act that comes, or doesn't come) is sin, which would be transgression of the Law of God.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the ONLY hope for any of us here is that Jesus is our High priest and mediator, unlike Sda, where they do not have Him in those roles, but must be good enough themselves!
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus fully justifies us by Grace alone by faith alone, and we will receive full sanctification when glorified!
     
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  4. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    I almost guffawed at that statement due to its sheer boldness of incorrectness. Please ~ no really, p l e a s e, do yourself, and all of us here, one thing, and one thing only as a kindness. Just go to the following site and type in either priest, high priest, priestly, ministration, administer, mediator, or such like words in connection with the words Jesus, Christ, Son of God and such like words - Ellen G. White Writings

    Humour me, is all I ask.
     
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be strongly suggesting that the strength provided by Jesus Christ, from Calvary, is insufficient to grant anyone victory (permanently) over all temptation and sin in the here and now, is that a correct assessment of your position?
     
  6. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    What do you think that the following (highlighted) sentences in these verses mean?

    Hab_2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

    Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Gal_3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    Heb_10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.​
     
  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    In matters of glorification, and sanctification:

    Do you believe that Jesus is in Heaven now meditating before the Father right now?

    [sub "if"] If so, does Jesus ever stop that mediation? Continuing with the "if": Will Jesus still be in Heaven when that mediation is ceased? Will God's people still be on earth when Jesus ceases mediation in Heaven? Does glorification of the mind/heart take place before glorification of the body?

    [sub "if"] If you do not believe that Jesus ever ceases mediation before the Father, how then does Jesus return to the earth? Continuing with the "if": If Jesus does not return to the earth, because Jesus needs to eternally mediate, how will glorification ever take place?
    Please answer the "if" route that you closely align with.
     
  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Some helpful materials for those reading.

    There are two glories spoken of in 2 Corinthians 3.

    [1] the glory of the law of God

    [2] the glory of Moses face.​

    The context and the koine Greek endings demonstrate that the 2n glory was "done away" with.

    Look:

    2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
    2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
    2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.​

    There are several things in 2 Corinthians 3.

    [1] Law (God's Ten Commandments, His Character, doesn't change, stays, "remaineth")

    [2] ministration (changes), how the Law is administered


    [3] glories (differing glories)

    The glory of the Law as seen in Moses face goes away

    the glory of the Law in the life and face of Jesus Christ remaineth and is more glorious.

    2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
    2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.​

    [4] Mediator (differing mediators)

    Moses ('old covenant'; Exodus 19:8)

    Jesus (eternal covenant; Malachi 2:5; Jeremiah 31; Hebrews 8, etc)​

    [5] location (differing locations)

    tables of stone

    tables of the fleshy heart (the brain is two hemispheres, two tables)​

    [6] Holy Ghost (doesn't change)

    The Law of God brings death, why?

    Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Rom_7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.​

    But it was ordained to Life, not death.

    Through the Holy Ghost, who writes the "my (God's) law" upon the heart, the Law is able to be fulfilled in the life:

    Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You mean like when during the IJ, none will have Jesus to mediate for their behalf, as they will need to be as perfect in keeping the law as He was able to?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None will reach a sinless perfection state!
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    faith is the very gift of God to those chosen in Christ Jesus, so we will not be faithless!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus is our High priest , and he will continue to function in that state until time that he is enthroned here on earth as the King over His Kingdom!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Mosaic Law was the OC given by God to Israel, and now that has been superceded, replaced by the NC!
    Per paul , The LAW NEVER justified any in sight of God, but it does point us to Jesus, the end of the law for all who believe!
     
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  14. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Very true..
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God imputes to us the very righteousness of Jesus Himself, would that not make us already justified and no more need to be judged by God?
     
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  16. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So what happens if we come to the end still full of sin and iniquity....

    Matthew 13:41
    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
     
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