Should Baptists use Confessions and Creeds?

[Yeshua1]

Do you find it mandatory for a believer to be subject to the traditional church model that has gradually crept in over the past 2,000 years, or are we subject to the biblical model as found in Acts and the epistles?

Next question:

Does "man of God" describe nothing more than a fellow believer... albeit more spiritually mature, or do you subscribe to the idea of "paid clergy" and the believer needing a singular pastor ( similar to the Catholic model of a "priest" which is a direct adoption of the Old Testament Law )?

Study His word, Dave...

I think you'll find a big difference between what is described in the Old Testament with regard to the Law of Mose and its adherents being under a high priest ( which represented Christ ), and for instance, the book of Acts and the epistles, where we as Christ's sheep are all equal under the new covenant and God gifts the body with a plurality of elders, deacons and other offices, like pastor and teacher.

Again, I wish you well, sir.

We need to heed the command of the Lord and come together to meet every Sunday in a local assembly, if possible, and to be under a gifted man of God and elders for teaching, instruction, and accountibility!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'd say that most who attend what are modeled as New Testament churches these days, do so to hear the teachings of men who grab their attention with sensationalism, rigid and empty religious ceremony, or warm and fuzzy sermons designed to tickle the ears.

Very few that I know of who profess Christ are actually willing to take everything their pastors are teaching them back to the Bible and check it against that.
Very few who I have contact with are wiling to sit down and listen to Biblical correction, rebuke, or admonishment...
and very few that I meet even know what sound doctrine actually consists of.

Then there's the matter of what "attending church" is supposed to be ( the building up of God's people in doctrine, as well as their growth in both knowledge and grace, see the epistles ), versus what it has become... a leavened lump, doctrinally, and Sunday entertainment for the masses ( that's why it's often referred to as a "worship service" and not a gathering or an assembly ).

Creeds and confessions may be a useful tool in order to display "menu choices" on a list of local "churches" ( to me, there's a big difference between a false "church" with a false teacher, and a true church with the true Teacher )... but without the Spirit of God in someone, there will never be actual koinonia...the fellowship of the saints.

You'll know it when you find it.
It's goes something like this:

Not only will all involved come to an agreement with each other over time on all matters of Scripture, they will exhibit the things that are described in the Bible...
They will love one another, and give of themselves to and for one another.

Two or more people who worship the Lord in both spirit and truth are what it's all about... and when they get together, their conversation revolves around Him and His words, what He has shown to them about Himself and what they are learning by His grace;
Their trials and tribulations in this world, and their difficulties...their joys and sorrows and their gratitude at being saved.

Not worldly interests like baseball games and hot rods, or fishing and movies or even their favorite preachers and teachers.


I wish you well, sir.

Interesting Dave, these are sentiments I mostly agree with. So how do you propose to correct these wayward carnal churches?

 

[Dave G]

Interesting Dave, these are sentiments I mostly agree with. So how do you propose to correct these wayward carnal churches?

I am not overly interested in correcting wayward and carnal churches, outside of putting in a timely word here and there...
The way I see it, God loves His children and He will correct them.

Those are what I'm interested in having a relationship with.

What I can tell you is, until He points me in the direction of one in my area that He does want me to get involved in, I'm not in disobedience to Him by refusing to get involved with ones that are continually in gross doctrinal error and show a decided lack of the presence of the Holy Spirit by going along, decade after decade, with professing pastors ( many of them now women ) and their never-ending errors.

Until then, I get to suffer the comments of people who see no other way to assemble together except in the commonly-accepted traditional model ( which, if one looks closely, is modeled more after the Roman Catholic Church than it is the Bible )...
This "model", as I see it, puts a huge economic and spiritual burden on Christ's sheep to keep up with outward appearances, instead of focusing on what's really important:

Having an eternal relationship with Him and His people, and ditching all the window dressing that we've become accustomed to.
This "model" also restricts believers from actually enjoying the benefits of unhindered interaction with one another and does more to discourage the use of spiritual gifts, IMO.

Instead, what many have come to see as "church", is in reality a spectator sport that has adopted man's practice of teaching truth by lecture, entertaining people with a "choir", and sermonizing using man-made philosophy...instead of preaching the word and teaching the Scriptures that was so prevalent in years past.


So, if people differ with me on what it is to "go to church", I figure, "hey, if that's what comes with the territory, then I'll suffer it".

 

[Dave G]

Back to the OP:

Should Baptists use confessions and creeds?
My question is, do we really need them?

Dear reader, you will have to answer that for yourselves.

 

[Dave G]

We need to heed the command of the Lord and come together to meet every Sunday in a local assembly, if possible, and to be under a gifted man of God and elders for teaching, instruction, and accountibility!

Respectfully, no, we don't, and you didn't answer any of the questions I posed in my post, did you?

We need to obey God and be led by the Holy Spirit both in word and in deed.
We are to let Him decide who we assemble with, and how that assembly looks...not tradition.

His assemblies will always resemble what the Holy Spirit brought together in the book of Acts, and in the epistles.
It will not resemble the overblown monstrosity that I firmly believe that it has become, Dave, with heated baptistries, a "choir loft", an "altar", a 45 minute sermon, a hierarchy of leadership like the military embodies, and plush pews for sleeping in while we wait to head home and watch the ball game.

Are you following what I'm getting at?

Because what I'm picking up from you is this idea that I need to go out and find a group of poeple who think it's mandatory to build a church building, operate it in the local, traditional sense, and participate with them ( and "make the best of it" ) even if they never change or never grow, spiritually, and always remain in their errors...
Instead of allowing God to lead me to fellowship with believers who love Him and His word and are growing, even if it means that they meet in someone's home and on another day than Sunday.

Am I wrong?
If so, then I ask your forgiveness.
If not, then I ask you this:

Instead of posting one-liners that seem only to reinforce what you've stated many times, would you be so kind as to post Scriptures that clearly show me to be in error by my refusal to participate in what has become the traditional model, when what I've been doing for a long time now is participating in the Biblical model?

If you can do that, then I will heed His word.
If you cannot, then we are faced with continually disagreeing with one another on what "attending church" is really about and what it consists of.

May the Lord bless you much in your studies and in your daily walk with Him.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Back to the OP:

Should Baptists use confessions and creeds?
My question is, do we really need them?

Dear reader, you will have to answer that for yourselves.

No we do not.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am not overly interested in correcting wayward and carnal churches, outside of putting in a timely word here and there...
The way I see it, God loves His children and He will correct them.


Those are what I'm interested in having a relationship with.

What I can tell you is, until He points me in the direction of one in my area that He does want me to get involved in, I'm not in disobedience to Him by refusing to get involved with ones that are continually in gross doctrinal error and show a decided lack of the presence of the Holy Spirit by going along, decade after decade, with professing pastors ( many of them now women ) and their never-ending errors.

Until then, I get to suffer the comments of people who see no other way to assemble together except in the commonly-accepted traditional model ( which, if one looks closely, is modeled more after the Roman Catholic Church than it is the Bible )...
This "model", as I see it, puts a huge economic and spiritual burden on Christ's sheep to keep up with outward appearances, instead of focusing on what's really important:

Having an eternal relationship with Him and His people, and ditching all the window dressing that we've become accustomed to.
This "model" also restricts believers from actually enjoying the benefits of unhindered interaction with one another and does more to discourage the use of spiritual gifts, IMO.

Instead, what many have come to see as "church", is in reality a spectator sport that has adopted man's practice of teaching truth by lecture, entertaining people with a "choir", and sermonizing using man-made philosophy...instead of preaching the word and teaching the Scriptures that was so prevalent in years past.


So, if people differ with me on what it is to "go to church", I figure, "hey, if that's what comes with the territory, then I'll suffer it".

Well David, again i largely agree with you regarding churches today. Often the only way we can effect change with these folks is by telling them the truth and that Truth is that it is Gods Saving Grace that is what the church is all about! That single “truth” needs to be emphasized over and over and over again, until there is breakthrough.

Being well aware that most churches do not operate with the HS and in Gods Saving Grace it is frustrating for the true born again Christian. So what am I supposed to do David? Am I supposed to pull back on my love commitments to my brothers & sisters because they don’t or can’t understand Gods Saving Grace? No David, I won’t do that... I even have a Mantra I use, it’s where you see dis function and misunderstanding, lay down your life until there is understanding. Isn’t that Gods plan to redeem a broken world?

 

[Dave G]

So what am I supposed to do David? Am I supposed to pull back on my love commitments to my brothers & sisters because they don’t or can’t understand Gods Saving Grace? No David, I won’t do that... I even have a Mantra I use, it’s where you see dis function and misunderstanding, lay down your life until there is understanding. Isn’t that Gods plan to redeem a broken world?

I recommend doing what the Lord has you doing right now.

If you're persuaded to stay somewhere or get involved with a group, then that is between you and Him.
I'm left with nothing larger than two of us whom the Lord has put together in my area, so I patiently wait for Him to show me where to go until such time as He answers my prayers.

It's not a matter of picking something off a list and then "trying it"...been there and done that.
Some here seem to think that I should be "forcing the Lord's hand" by making my own way and effecting my own solution...while I'm big on following the Lord's obvious leading ( Philippians 2:13 ).

I'll keep doing what I'm doing until He makes it obvious to me that I should be doing something else.
Thanks for the concern.

As it stands, my comments have taken this thread far off-topic.
Shall we return to that?

 

[Yeshua1]

Back to the OP:

Should Baptists use confessions and creeds?
My question is, do we really need them?

Dear reader, you will have to answer that for yourselves.

Our churches could use them as means to make sure staying biblical. as true to the scriptures, and can be used to aid raising up our children in ways of tghe Lord!

 

[Yeshua1]

Respectfully, no, we don't, and you didn't answer any of the questions I posed in my post, did you?

We need to obey God and be led by the Holy Spirit both in word and in deed.
We are to let Him decide who we assemble with, and how that assembly looks...not tradition.

His assemblies will always resemble what the Holy Spirit brought together in the book of Acts, and in the epistles.
It will not resemble the overblown monstrosity that I firmly believe that it has become, Dave, with heated baptistries, a "choir loft", an "altar", a 45 minute sermon, a hierarchy of leadership like the military embodies, and plush pews for sleeping in while we wait to head home and watch the ball game.

Are you following what I'm getting at?

Because what I'm picking up from you is this idea that I need to go out and find a group of poeple who think it's mandatory to build a church building, operate it in the local, traditional sense, and participate with them ( and "make the best of it" ) even if they never change or never grow, spiritually, and always remain in their errors...
Instead of allowing God to lead me to fellowship with believers who love Him and His word and are growing, even if it means that they meet in someone's home and on another day than Sunday.

Am I wrong?
If so, then I ask your forgiveness.
If not, then I ask you this:

Instead of posting one-liners that seem only to reinforce what you've stated many times, would you be so kind as to post Scriptures that clearly show me to be in error by my refusal to participate in what has become the traditional model, when what I've been doing for a long time now is participating in the Biblical model?

If you can do that, then I will heed His word.
If you cannot, then we are faced with continually disagreeing with one another on what "attending church" is really about and what it consists of.

May the Lord bless you much in your studies and in your daily walk with Him.

We are commanded to assemble together with a local assembly of like minded saints, and there to praise and worship and be instructed from the scriptures by those gifted to preach and teach the word!

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not overly interested in correcting wayward and carnal churches, outside of putting in a timely word here and there...
The way I see it, God loves His children and He will correct them.

Those are what I'm interested in having a relationship with.

What I can tell you is, until He points me in the direction of one in my area that He does want me to get involved in, I'm not in disobedience to Him by refusing to get involved with ones that are continually in gross doctrinal error and show a decided lack of the presence of the Holy Spirit by going along, decade after decade, with professing pastors ( many of them now women ) and their never-ending errors.

Until then, I get to suffer the comments of people who see no other way to assemble together except in the commonly-accepted traditional model ( which, if one looks closely, is modeled more after the Roman Catholic Church than it is the Bible )...
This "model", as I see it, puts a huge economic and spiritual burden on Christ's sheep to keep up with outward appearances, instead of focusing on what's really important:

Having an eternal relationship with Him and His people, and ditching all the window dressing that we've become accustomed to.
This "model" also restricts believers from actually enjoying the benefits of unhindered interaction with one another and does more to discourage the use of spiritual gifts, IMO.

Instead, what many have come to see as "church", is in reality a spectator sport that has adopted man's practice of teaching truth by lecture, entertaining people with a "choir", and sermonizing using man-made philosophy...instead of preaching the word and teaching the Scriptures that was so prevalent in years past.


So, if people differ with me on what it is to "go to church", I figure, "hey, if that's what comes with the territory, then I'll suffer it".

So there are NO Baptist churches that are teaching sound doctrine in your entire area?

 

[Dave G]

We are commanded to assemble together with a local assembly of like minded saints, and there to praise and worship and be instructed from the scriptures by those gifted to preach and teach the word!

May I suggest starting a thread on this?

With respect, I don't think that this is the place to discuss what constitutes a church.
Didn't you start this thread about another subject?

So there are NO Baptist churches that are teaching sound doctrine in your entire area?

Again, please start a thread, Dave... I'm not going to participate in a thread about church attendance in one that isn't about that subject.
This thread is about creeds and confessions, and while they may be useful to some, I see no need to subscribe to them.

During the preaching in any assembly, matters pertaining to Scripture will reveal themselves, so to me, they are not really needed except to advertise a groups beliefs.
This is my final reply in this thread.

Good evening to you.

 

[JonC]

Yes, creeds and confessions are necessary. Not because the Bible is insufficient but because saying "I believe the Bible" tells me nothing. WHAT do you believe about the Bible? That's the purpose of a creed and confession.

I would add covenants. Some churches shy away from "creeds" and "confessions" but have "church covenants" that are basically the same thing (except related to the particular church).

 

[Reformed1689]

I would add covenants. Some churches shy away from "creeds" and "confessions" but have "church covenants" that are basically the same thing (except related to the particular church).

That depends on the Covenant and how in-depth it goes.

 

[JonC]

That depends on the Covenant and how in-depth it goes.

True (and if it is even known by the congregation).

But I guess Creeds and Confessions are the same way, huh.

Some are good some are not. Some are used appropriately some are abused.

 

[Yeshua1]

True (and if it is even known by the congregation).

But I guess Creeds and Confessions are the same way, huh.

Some are good some are not. Some are used appropriately some are abused.

There is a proper balance, as some despise using them at all, as if it violated scriptures only, while others seem to equate essentially on par with scriptures!

 

[Reformed1689]

There is a proper balance, as some despise using them at all, as if it violated scriptures only, while others seem to equate essentially on par with scriptures!

The ones who talk about it violating Scripture Only don't understand the difference between Sola Scriptura and Solo Scriptura.

 

[Yeshua1]

The ones who talk about it violating Scripture Only don't understand the difference between Sola Scriptura and Solo Scriptura.

They would tend to be the same who despise using other study aids, as all we need are the "Bible and Holy Spirit"