Faith In Jesus as Lord is that which allows a lost sinner to access full grace of God!
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What is Christs true church from Gods Word
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
We are under the New, Not the Old Covenant as Israel was!
The church of Christ started to worship and gather in Acts, as Apostles change the Day, not Rome!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
And as you can see, the law is the same, just written in our hearts..
2 Corinthians 3:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Now I came across something really hits home on how the church at Rome suppressed the truth and now we must choose going forward...
"Do you want to be a person of truth, someone who loves the truth, who is able to comprehend the truth and move forward in truth as it is revealed?
The Bible tells us that those who are lost are lost because “they refused to love the truth and so be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).
Something about them causes them to develop minds and hearts that do not love truth. These lost souls won’t accept advancing light and don’t have minds that are willing to move forward in unfolding insight.
Do you think the majority who refuse truth realize they are doing so or would they likely consider themselves defenders of the truth?...
Because truth is typically initially resisted, this advancement of light is slow and even contentious at times. Thus, just like with germ theory, some groups will practice the new truth, while others stick by the traditional standards. In time, however, what is actually true will be demonstrated to be healthier and result in greater acceptance, until practiced by the vast majority — unless some obstacle is inserted into the organization to prevent the truth from its normal and natural advancement. And what is that obstacle? A hierarchical organization — a top-down authoritarian system.
In such a system, authority is not local, but is invested in a supreme leader or governing body that establishes, from the top, what is truth, typically with precise definitions. This could be called a creed or a list of fundamental beliefs, but, regardless, these definitions are not open to being challenged or deviated from by anyone within the organization. This is because in hierarchical organizations, questioning the established truth is seen as undermining its authority, as rebellious, and as an attack on “known truth.” New ideas are not tested, because, when they arise in local regions, they are not allowed to advance and be tested. Instead, the ruling authority has a system of thought police, or compliance officers, who oversee the local groups, monitoring for any idea which threatens the orthodox view, and then act to bring consequences to bear, thus ensuring new truth never takes root. Any group or region who attempts to resist the central authority and move forward in new light will be ridiculed, accused of being rebellious, and threatened with expulsion from the organization.
Consider when the gospel was being preached in the first century after the resurrection of Christ. The top-down, authoritarian, religious leaders utilized coercive power in an attempt to silence the Apostles. However, Gamaliel stood up and promoted a different method. He pointed out that others, with false messages, had arisen, but because their messages were false they faded away. He summed up with this inspired wisdom, “I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God” (Acts 5:38-39).
And what does the history of organized religion tell us? Where has the vast majority of opposition to advancing truth originated, if not from the theological ruling counsels of each era? And what method did those systems employ, if not a top-down, authoritarian approach, with centralized definitions of orthodox truth?
The question for each of us today is: Do you want to be a person of truth, someone who loves the truth, who is able to comprehend the truth and move forward in truth as it is revealed?
Consider people through history who have resisted truth, such as those who crucified Christ, or persecuted His Apostles, or those who murdered the Reformers. Do you think they would have said, “We know we are in the wrong; we know we don’t have the truth; we realize these people are in the right, so let’s destroy them?” Or do you think these opposers of truth thought they were defending the truth?
I think that most people, who end up opposing and resisting truth do so while ardently believing they are defenders of the truth. How can we tell if we fall into the truth-loving group or the truth-opposing camp? By understanding how truth actually moves forward and then determining which system and method we are promoting."...Truth — How It Unfolds and Advances
"Do you want to be a person of truth, someone who loves the truth, who is able to comprehend the truth and move forward in truth as it is revealed?
The Bible tells us that those who are lost are lost because “they refused to love the truth and so be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).
Something about them causes them to develop minds and hearts that do not love truth. These lost souls won’t accept advancing light and don’t have minds that are willing to move forward in unfolding insight.
Do you think the majority who refuse truth realize they are doing so or would they likely consider themselves defenders of the truth?...
Because truth is typically initially resisted, this advancement of light is slow and even contentious at times. Thus, just like with germ theory, some groups will practice the new truth, while others stick by the traditional standards. In time, however, what is actually true will be demonstrated to be healthier and result in greater acceptance, until practiced by the vast majority — unless some obstacle is inserted into the organization to prevent the truth from its normal and natural advancement. And what is that obstacle? A hierarchical organization — a top-down authoritarian system.
In such a system, authority is not local, but is invested in a supreme leader or governing body that establishes, from the top, what is truth, typically with precise definitions. This could be called a creed or a list of fundamental beliefs, but, regardless, these definitions are not open to being challenged or deviated from by anyone within the organization. This is because in hierarchical organizations, questioning the established truth is seen as undermining its authority, as rebellious, and as an attack on “known truth.” New ideas are not tested, because, when they arise in local regions, they are not allowed to advance and be tested. Instead, the ruling authority has a system of thought police, or compliance officers, who oversee the local groups, monitoring for any idea which threatens the orthodox view, and then act to bring consequences to bear, thus ensuring new truth never takes root. Any group or region who attempts to resist the central authority and move forward in new light will be ridiculed, accused of being rebellious, and threatened with expulsion from the organization.
Consider when the gospel was being preached in the first century after the resurrection of Christ. The top-down, authoritarian, religious leaders utilized coercive power in an attempt to silence the Apostles. However, Gamaliel stood up and promoted a different method. He pointed out that others, with false messages, had arisen, but because their messages were false they faded away. He summed up with this inspired wisdom, “I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God” (Acts 5:38-39).
And what does the history of organized religion tell us? Where has the vast majority of opposition to advancing truth originated, if not from the theological ruling counsels of each era? And what method did those systems employ, if not a top-down, authoritarian approach, with centralized definitions of orthodox truth?
The question for each of us today is: Do you want to be a person of truth, someone who loves the truth, who is able to comprehend the truth and move forward in truth as it is revealed?
Consider people through history who have resisted truth, such as those who crucified Christ, or persecuted His Apostles, or those who murdered the Reformers. Do you think they would have said, “We know we are in the wrong; we know we don’t have the truth; we realize these people are in the right, so let’s destroy them?” Or do you think these opposers of truth thought they were defending the truth?
I think that most people, who end up opposing and resisting truth do so while ardently believing they are defenders of the truth. How can we tell if we fall into the truth-loving group or the truth-opposing camp? By understanding how truth actually moves forward and then determining which system and method we are promoting."...Truth — How It Unfolds and Advances
Sda accepts as truth the false teachings of Ellen White though!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
God doesn't change, neither does the Law.
No but the Law is no longer on the Christian as we died to it, as now under NC of Grace!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Christ makes clear who His saints will be that will be with Him, so there is no question...
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Apostle John made it very clear, commandments of those under NC not Mosaic, but to love Jesus and the fellow saints!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Here is John:
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
The commandments of Jesus boils down to loving Him and the fellow saints, nothing to do with Sabbath keeping or Jewish diets!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
I think it was the one He wrote with His own finger...
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jesus was born under the Mosaic law, fulfilled tghat Law for us, and now under the NC of Grace, as sabbath and diets just shadows and types, and now passed away!
mailmandan
Active Member
In other words, salvation by “grace plus law, faith plus works.”
mailmandan
Active Member
I often hear those who believe they will be saved based on the merits of obeying the 10 commandments (usually SDA's) quote Revelation 22:14 quite a bit. I noticed in Revelation 22:14 that certain translations say, "do his commandments," yet numerous other translations say, "wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb (Romans 3:24-26). *Also see Revelation 7:14.
Ellen White stated that we are cleansed by the blood of Jesus for sins, but those sins n ot yet blotted out, as Jesus will check to make sure that all who profess him have kept the Law well enough to merit keeping salvation!
mailmandan
Active Member
Do you believe that man is saved based on the merits of keeping the commandments and do you (along with the rich young ruler) confidently and (self righteously) declare that you have kept the commandments and qualify to receive eternal life under those terms? Where do you draw the line in the sand on sufficiently keeping the commandments?
Hobie
Well-Known Member
You are saved by the righteousness of Christ, but you have to surrender yourself fully to Him, not continue in sin and in the lair of evil, a servant to iniquity.
Acts 8:22-24 King James Version (KJV)
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
So what shows us sin...
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
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mailmandan
Active Member
So saved by the righteousness of Christ + living a sinless, perfect life/based on the merits of keeping the commandments? Is that what you mean by full surrender/not continue in sin?
Simon the sorcerer certainly needed to repent because he thought he could purchase the gift of God with money. Peter made it clear to Simon that he has neither part nor portion in this matter, for his heart is not right in the sight of God. Simon's conversion was bogus as he was still in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.
You seem to be hung up on the law. Do you subscribe to sinless perfection? Do you believe that you will be justified by the law? Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
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