Featured God is Completely Sovereign or in Control of EVERYTHING that happens.

Yep, Calvinists claim God predestined our each and every sin, then punishes us for doing what He compelled us to do.

 

It's not a bet. God doesn't gamble. God is goading Satan so that God can show Satan that God is Sovereign. God knows Job, as He knows everyone. He knows that the faith He gave Job will persevere against all that Satan could do. In essence, God is mocking Satan and Satan falls right into God's trap.

I suggest the teaching series by Derek Thomas in Ligonier.It's free at the moment and worth the listen.
The Book of Job by Derek Thomas

 

This is your false assertion, either intentional or out of ignorance.
God certainly ordains that men follow their sinful desires and God either chooses to intervene or allow, based solely upon His predetermined will for His creation.

What you reveal is the fact that you cannot face the wretchedness of your own sin and how evil that makes you. Moreso, you want all the control to fix your own problem without God.

 

Romans 11:33-36. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgements and His ways past finding out!
"For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counsellor?" (Isaiah 40:13; cf. Jeremiah 23:18)
"Or who has first given to Him and it shall be repaid to him?" (cf. Job 41:11)
For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.'

 

Deflection on display, God does not cause or predestine whatsoever comes to pass, He allows people to choose to bring Him glory or not. This truth is presented from beginning to end in scripture, including the book Job, written after the time of Solomon, about a man (Job) who lived probably circa 2000 BC, or about 4000 years ago.

 

I am rather sick of this self righteous blowhards constantly deflecting from a discussion and disparaging me with generalizations, requiring no actual knowledge of scripture or Calvinism.


Yep, Calvinists claim God predestined our each and every sin, then punishes us for doing what He compelled us to do.
They claim God "ordains" (meaning predestines) whatsoever comes to pass, and then using cognitive dissonance, say God does not "ordain" (meaning predestine) sin. But "whatsoever comes to pass" includes sin. So there you have it, a ludicrous doctrine supported by deflection and disparagement. That is all folks.

 

Van, the Bible teaches predestination. Have you simply deleted these passages from your Bible so you can deny them? Or do you prefer to twist them in ways that castrate what Paul said?
What I know about you is that you have a poor understanding of John Calvin and you apply your ignorance to all person's who attest to the teaching of the Bible as it relates to predestination.

Your assertions are therefore illegitimate and every Christian should rightfully treat them as such.

 

Did I say the bible does not teach predestination? Nope so deflection.
Next the usual personal attack, "you have a poor understanding of John Calvin." No meat on that bone.
I present the actual biblical doctrine of predestination, not the Calvinist perversion.

Returning to the topic:
Calvinists claim God predestined our each and every sin, then punishes us for doing what He compelled us to do.
They claim God "ordains" (meaning predestines) whatsoever comes to pass, and then using cognitive dissonance, say God does not "ordain" (meaning predestine) sin. But "whatsoever comes to pass" includes sin. So there you have it, a ludicrous doctrine supported by deflection and disparagement. That is all folks.

Here is the issue boiled down to its essence:
Calvinists claim God predestined our each and every sin, then punishes us for doing what He compelled us to do.

 

Twaddle, the issue is if God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, then God is the author of sin. Further, if God then punishes those who sinned because of God's compulsion, the injustice vilifies God.
Calvinism on display

God's sovereignty is defined as God causing or allowing whatsoever comes to pass.

 

The Greek word in question is proorizo. It is found six times in the NT.
Four times it is translated 'predestinate' in the KJV ('predestine' in the ESV). Twice in Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:5; Ephesians 1:11.
It is translated as 'ordain' in 1 Corinthians 2:7 ('decreed' in the ESV) and as 'determine beforehand' in Acts of the Apostles 4:28 ('predestine' in the ESV).

Readers may like to look these verses up to check the contexts and to compare with other trustworthy translations.

 

'God has decreed in Himself from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things which shall ever come to pass (Isaiah 46:10-11; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18) - yet in such away that God is neither the author of sin nor does He have fellowship with any in the committing of sins (James 1:13-15; 1 John 1:5), nor is violence offered to the will of the creature [i.e. no one is made to sin] nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established (Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28; John 19:11).
In all this God's wisdom is displayed, disposing all things, and also His power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree (Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5).
1689 Baptist Confession 3:1. N.B. By God's 'faithfulness' in the final paragraph is meant His unswerving conformity to His own holy character and His revealed word.

 

At least some bible knowledge is indicated by this post. How refreshing!
But why was my quote edited to eliminate the answer? Here is the edited quote:
Did I say the bible does not teach predestination?
And here is the unedited quote:
Did I say the bible does not teach predestination? Nope so deflection.

Now that my view has been presented accurately, what is the post trying to say? That the bible does indeed teach predestination? But that is not in dispute.

In Romans 8:29-30 those that have been placed in Christ are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Predestined to be saved is no where to be found.

In Ephesians 1:5 God predestined those that have been placed in Christ to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming. Again, predestined to be saved is no where to be found.

In Ephesians 1:11 the predestined "inheritance" refers to our redemption, so once again, predestined to be saved is no where to be found.

In 1 Corinthians 2:7 the Lord of Glory (Christ Jesus) was predestined before the ages, so predestined to salvation is no where to be found.

In Acts of the Apostles 4:28 the predestined plan for Christ to suffer and die is in view, but predestined to salvation is no where to be found.

 

Thanks for proving the cognitive dissonance where God predestined all things that shall ever come to pass, while at the same time saying God did not predestine all thing that shall ever come to pass.

 

This is an utterly false assertion born by your ignorance or dogma. That is not Calvinism on display...that is Vanism on display.

That is not the definition of God's Sovereignty.
John Piper has provided a more accurate definition.
There are no limits to God’s rule. This is part of what it means to be God. He is sovereign over the whole world, and everything that happens in it. He is never helpless, never frustrated, never at a loss. And in Christ, God’s awesome, sovereign providence is the place we feel most reverent, most secure, most free.

God Is Sovereign over the Universe
Whenever God acts, he acts in a way that pleases him. God is never constrained to do a thing that he despises. He is never backed into a corner where his only recourse is to do something he hates to do. He does whatever he pleases.
The Sovereignty of God

When we say God is sovereign, we mean he is powerful and authoritative to the extent of being able to override all other powers and authorities. That’s my effort at a definition. Nothing can successfully stop any act or any event or design or purpose that God intends to certainly bring about.
What Is the Sovereignty of God?

 

Actually Job was perfect despite God’s sovereignty. Which refutes the whole of Reformed theology. There is nothing about God that forced Job to be perfect. One can call it self righteousness, but in name only. Job was not self righteous because that is what he was accused of being. He ended up being self-righteous because he did question God and because of the accusations of his friends. He listened to his friends and not God.

Satan accused Job of only being righteous because God’s Sovereignty blessed Job. But was Job righteous because of God’s blessings? No.

His wife accused Job of being too righteous. She just wanted him to sin and die.

His friends blamed God, by thinking God was punishing Job. Job was not being punished. But because of the words of his friends, his self righteousness did start. Job would not be wrong in justifying a sinless lifestyle. Job would be wrong in rationalizing he was blameless before God.

God's Sovereignty as an argument is wrong about predestination and foreknowledge. Paul already explained Calvin's points. Going past Paul is the issue. Reformed theology adds interpretation to the fact of God's Sovereignty to a point that Paul would not answer. Not because Paul had no answer, but because it cannot be found in any Scripture, not even Job. Job was not predestined to be blessed, nor was foreknowledge mentioned. If that were the case, should Satan use that instead of the blessings themselves? Why did Satan not say that God predestined Job to be a perfect human without fault? Was God lying about predestination and foreknowledge by not stating it in Satan's accusations? If God really taught Reformed theology, would not Job be the book to declare it? Did God predestine the apostasy of the last days which would cause a huge reduction in who gets saved?

Or is the church being tested like Job, and just going to come out the same with self-righteous rationalizations? The chief rationalization, that God just condemns some to hell, because God can. The rationalization that Atonement is limited. The rationalization that humans are depraved, but going a step further that this depravity nullifies free will. All these points do not justify God's Sovereignty. They only rationalize a false interpretation that tried to explain what Paul had already settled in the 1st century. Reformed theology itself brought on this apostate condition. The church (Job) listened to false teachings like that of Job's friends rationalizing God’s Word, instead of the church, each individual, keeping in the Word of God themselves.