Predestination

[Earth Wind and Fire]

WHAT IS MEANT BY PREDESTINATION?



Predestination is that effective exercise of the will of God by which things before determined by Him are brought to pass. God says that at a certain time He is going to do a certain thing. That thing shall be done at that time because God is sovereign, possessing all wisdom and power. Predestination, as presented in Scripture, does not imply that God arranged all things beforehand but it refers solely to the salvation of God's elect. The prefix pre means before. Destination is the end of a journey. Destine means to determine. Predestination means the end of a journey determined beforehand. There is but one destination that was predestinated and that destination is heaven and immortal glory. It is there that all the saints will be conformed to the image of God for this is what God had predestinated. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:29). Paul also writes, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Ephesians 1:5). We are told why the saints are predestinated. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" (Ephesians 1:11).

 

[canadyjd]

The Greek scholars here will do better than me, but the Greek word is basically a construction term meaning to set boundaries stones prior to building.

So God set us apart, laying the boundary stones for His chosen people to include them in His plan for salvation.

Peace to you

 

[Barry Johnson]

WHAT IS MEANT BY PREDESTINATION?



Predestination is that effective exercise of the will of God by which things before determined by Him are brought to pass. God says that at a certain time He is going to do a certain thing. That thing shall be done at that time because God is sovereign, possessing all wisdom and power. Predestination, as presented in Scripture, does not imply that God arranged all things beforehand but it refers solely to the salvation of God's elect. The prefix pre means before. Destination is the end of a journey. Destine means to determine. Predestination means the end of a journey determined beforehand. There is but one destination that was predestinated and that destination is heaven and immortal glory. It is there that all the saints will be conformed to the image of God for this is what God had predestinated. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:29). Paul also writes, "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Ephesians 1:5). We are told why the saints are predestinated. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" (Ephesians 1:11).

Outside of the Calvernist paradigm it simply means to choose a destination before hand . So all those that freely believe the Gosepl after this God then predestines this person to be glorified. No one is chosen to be saved before they believe the Gospel.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Outside of the Calvernist paradigm it simply means to choose a destination before hand . So all those that freely believe the Gosepl after this God then predestines this person to be glorified. No one is chosen to be saved before they believe the Gospel.

Essentially it's a calvernist buzz word . Along with ' Election ' ' called ' ' chosen ' ' ordained ' ' granted ' . once you become a calvernist you can no longer see the context these words are placed in .

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Outside of the Calvernist paradigm it simply means to choose a destination before hand . So all those that freely believe the Gosepl after this God then predestines this person to be glorified. No one is chosen to be saved before they believe the Gospel.

So your saying that one must hear and understand the gospel, actively obey the gospel, and manifestly believe on Christ, in order to become a child of God? If so, then I strenuously disagree.

 

[Barry Johnson]

So your saying that one must hear and understand the gospel, actively obey the gospel, and manifestly believe on Christ, in order to become a child of God? If so, then I strenuously disagree.

Yes as Roman's 10 ..8and 9 says . Wow you deny the very thing that saves a person ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes as Roman's 10 ..8and 9 says . Wow you deny the very thing that saves a person ?

The bible clearly says that it pleases God by the foolishness of the preaching to save those that believe . it's that simple .

 

[Yeshua1]

Outside of the Calvernist paradigm it simply means to choose a destination before hand . So all those that freely believe the Gosepl after this God then predestines this person to be glorified. No one is chosen to be saved before they believe the Gospel.

Happens towards the chosen in Christ by God, before they received Jesus thru faith!

 

[Barry Johnson]

Happens towards the chosen in Christ by God, before they received Jesus thru faith!

But that is not what the bible says

 

[Dave G]

No one is chosen to be saved before they believe the Gospel.

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ).

But that is not what the bible says

 

[Dave G]

So your saying that one must hear and understand the gospel, actively obey the gospel, and manifestly believe on Christ, in order to become a child of God? If so, then I strenuously disagree.

Here, I'll bold the part I think he's missing, EWF ( look above )...
I remember distinctly, when I once believed this "order of salvation", sitting in church as a young believer and hearing the pastor tell me...
" ...Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:31 ).

I believed those words then, and I still believe them now.

Much later, I discovered that there was more to the Bible than what he quoted and that, while this was still true, it was the whole "how to get saved" part that I began to disagree with.
When the Lord showed me Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, it all started to change for me.

Yes as Roman's 10 ..8and 9 says . Wow you deny the very thing that saves a person ?

@Barry Johnson :
The thing that saves a person is this, Barry...

" not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:5-7 ).

We believe because we are saved, not to gain God's favor and get Him to save us.
In truth, the very thing that saves a person is God Himself, and we react to His decision and His work in us as the targets of that salvation.

He bestows the gift of eternal life, we don't earn it by our belief.
That is how grace works, biblically.

It's not a cooperative effort between man and God, but an operative effort by God towards us as sinful men.

 

[Dave G]

Essentially it's a calvernist buzz word . Along with ' Election ' ' called ' ' chosen ' ' ordained ' ' granted ' . once you become a calvernist you can no longer see the context these words are placed in .

What is that context, Barry, if I may ask?

"* Elect" doesn't mean "chosen"?
* (of a person) chosen or singled out.
"one of the century's elect"

"* Ordained" doesn't mean "commissioned", "set forth", "appointed", etc?
* order or decree (something) officially.

"* Granted" does not mean "given"?
* agree to give or allow (something requested) to.

What does "called" mean to you?
"Summoned", as the dictionary says, or something else?


I'm also not sure how I became a "Calvinist", since all I was doing was reading the Scriptures one day and *click* I understood the words to mean exactly what they said on the page.
For example:

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

So, when I read this, I clearly saw that only as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed, and only those who were ordained to eternal life.
I'm also not sure how anybody could have difficulty believing what this says, as to me, it's quite simple and straightforward.

Note:
What I did not do, was read the Scriptures, come to something I didn't understand, and then find a commentary that I thought seemed right to me and plug that explanation in as my own personal definition of what I was having trouble with.
I do know of people who do that, but I never seemed to have this problem with the words themselves... only with trying to understand how it all fit together, which came to me gradually ( and still does, to an extent ) over the years.


The words on the page were all I that needed, sir.

 

[Dave G]

WHAT IS MEANT BY PREDESTINATION?

Pre- ( before )
Destination- ( a place or state of being to go to )

 

[AustinC]

Outside of the Calvernist paradigm it simply means to choose a destination before hand . So all those that freely believe the Gosepl after this God then predestines this person to be glorified. No one is chosen to be saved before they believe the Gospel.

What an oxymoron you have created.
You are stating that no one is chosen by God until the human being chooses to believe.
That is just one of the most illogical things I have ever read.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Here, I'll bold the part I think he's missing, EWF ( look above )...
I remember distinctly, when I once believed this "order of salvation", sitting in church as a young believer and hearing the pastor tell me...
" ...Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:31 ).

I believed those words then, and I still believe them now.

Much later, I discovered that there was more to the Bible than what he quoted and that, while this was still true, it was the whole "how to get saved" part that I began to disagree with.
When the Lord showed me Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, it all started to change for me.

@Barry Johnson :
The thing that saves a person is this, Barry...

" not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:5-7 ).

We believe because we are saved, not to gain God's favor and get Him to save us.
In truth, the very thing that saves a person is God Himself, and we react to His decision and His work in us as the targets of that salvation.

He bestows the gift of eternal life, we don't earn it by our belief.
That is how grace works, biblically.

It's not a cooperative effort between man and God, but an operative effort by God towards us as sinful men.

Ok that philosophy sounds great but the scriptures say something completely different .
Eph 1 13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with Holy spirit ...
1 cor 1
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20¶Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Rom 1 . The Gospel is ! the power of God unto salvation.
Rom.10
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14¶How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18¶But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes as Roman's 10 ..8and 9 says . Wow you deny the very thing that saves a person ?

Yes as Roman's 10 ..8and 9 says . Wow you deny the very thing that saves a person ?

Only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3:6-8). The gospel brings life and immortality to light, but does not produce life (II Tim.1: 10).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Pre- ( before )
Destination- ( a place or state of being to go to )

And so how many times in the scriptures is predestined used?

 

[Barry Johnson]

What an oxymoron you have created.
You are stating that no one is chosen by God until the human being chooses to believe.
That is just one of the most illogical things I have ever read.

In Gods kingly sovereign freedom He freely chose to save all those that believe. This is How God chose to save people . We dont tell God how He has to save people .

 

[Barry Johnson]

And so how many times in the scriptures is predestined used?

You would think it was used in every verse according to some .

 

[Barry Johnson]

What is that context, Barry, if I may ask?

"* Elect" doesn't mean "chosen"?
* (of a person) chosen or singled out.
"one of the century's elect"

"* Ordained" doesn't mean "commissioned", "set forth", "appointed", etc?
* order or decree (something) officially.

"* Granted" does not mean "given"?
* agree to give or allow (something requested) to.

What does "called" mean to you?
"Summoned", as the dictionary says, or something else?


I'm also not sure how I became a "Calvinist", since all I was doing was reading the Scriptures one day and *click* I understood the words to mean exactly what they said on the page.
For example:

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

So, when I read this, I clearly saw that only as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed, and only those who were ordained to eternal life.
I'm also not sure how anybody could have difficulty believing what this says, as to me, it's quite simple and straightforward.

Note:
What I did not do, was read the Scriptures, come to something I didn't understand, and then find a commentary that I thought seemed right to me and plug that explanation in as my own personal definition of what I was having trouble with.
I do know of people who do that, but I never seemed to have this problem with the words themselves... only with trying to understand how it all fit together, which came to me gradually ( and still does, to an extent ) over the years.


The words on the page were all I that needed, sir.

Why didn't you read the verses that clearly say we are saved after we believe . plain as day . well until you buy into a system . Then its post hock rationalization.