Jeremiah and Ezekiel. It was fulfilled through the sacrificial death of Christ Jesus for the chosen people of God.
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The Covenant of Redemption
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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maybe because the Covenant of grace was not instituted until NC times?
Those under the Time of messiah birth, death, and resurrection!
made by Jesus upon His Cross!
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
One Covenant from Eternity Past and various 'Administrations' of The Covenant of Grace, in different 'economies', Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,..." , by....(?)...about The Triune Godhead's one Covenant of Grace.
- ( 5.2 ) JESUS SAVED ADAM ACCORDING to THE EVERLASTING COVENANT of GRACE Made by THE ETERNAL GODHEAD.
Mikey
Active Member
Perhaps useful for discussion.
(Source: Louis Berkof's SystematicTheology)
B. SCRIPTURAL DATA FOR THE COVENANT OF REDEMPTION.
The name “counsel of peace” is derived from Zech. 6:13. Coccejus and others found in this passage a reference to an agreement between the Father and the Son. This was clearly a mistake, for the words refer to the union of the kingly and priestly offices in the Messiah. The Scriptural character of the name cannot be maintained, but this, of course, does not detract from the reality of the counsel of peace. The doctrine of this eternal counsel rests on the following Scriptural basis.
1. Scripture clearly points to the fact that the plan of redemption was included in the eternal decree or counsel of God, Eph. 1:4 ff.; 3:11; II Thess. 2:13; II Tim. 1:9; Jas. 2:5; I Pet. 1:2, etc. Now we find that in the economy of redemption there is, in a sense, a division of labor: the Father is the originator, the Son the executor, and the Holy Spirit the applier. This can only be the result of a voluntary agreement among the persons of the Trinity, so that their internal relations assume the form of a covenant life. In fact, it is exactly in the trinitarian life that we find the archetype of the historical covenants, a covenant in the proper and fullest sense of the word, the parties meeting on a footing of equality, a true suntheke.
2. There are passages of Scripture which not only point to the fact that the plan of God for the salvation of sinners was eternal, Eph. 1:4; 3:9,11, but also indicate that it was of the nature of a covenant. Christ speaks of promises made to Him before his advent, and repeatedly refers to a commission which He had received from the Father, John 5:30,43; 6:38-40; 17:4-12. And in Rom. 5:12-21 and I Cor. 15:22 He is clearly regarded as a representative head, that is, as the head of a covenant.
3. Wherever we have the essential elements of a covenant, namely, contracting parties, a promise or promises, and a condition, there we have a covenant. In Ps. 2:7-9 the parties are mentioned and a promise is indicated. The Messianic character of this passage is guaranteed by Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5. Again, in Ps. 40:7-9, also attested as Messianic by the New Testament (Heb. 10:5-7), the Messiah expresses His readiness to do the Father’s will in becoming a sacrifice for sin. Christ repeatedly speaks of a task which the Father has entrusted to Him, John 6:38,39; 10:18; 17:4. The statement in Luke 22:29 is particularly significant: “I appoint unto you a kingdom, even as my Father appointed unto me.” The verb used here is diatithemi, the word from which diatheke is derived, which means to appoint by will, testament or covenant. Moreover, in John 17:5 Christ claims a reward, and in John 17:6,9,24 (cf. also Phil. 2:9-11) He refers to His people and His future glory as a reward given Him by the Father.
4. There are two Old Testament passages which connect up the idea of the covenant immediately with the Messiah, namely, Ps. 89:3, which is based on II Sam. 7:12-14, and is proved to be a Messianic passage by Heb. 1:5; and Isa. 42:6, where the person referred to is the Servant of the Lord. The connection clearly shows that this Servant is not merely Israel. Moreover, there are passages in which the Messiah speaks of God as His God, thus using covenant language, namely, Ps. 22:1, 2, and Ps. 40:8.
(Source: Louis Berkof's SystematicTheology)
B. SCRIPTURAL DATA FOR THE COVENANT OF REDEMPTION.
The name “counsel of peace” is derived from Zech. 6:13. Coccejus and others found in this passage a reference to an agreement between the Father and the Son. This was clearly a mistake, for the words refer to the union of the kingly and priestly offices in the Messiah. The Scriptural character of the name cannot be maintained, but this, of course, does not detract from the reality of the counsel of peace. The doctrine of this eternal counsel rests on the following Scriptural basis.
1. Scripture clearly points to the fact that the plan of redemption was included in the eternal decree or counsel of God, Eph. 1:4 ff.; 3:11; II Thess. 2:13; II Tim. 1:9; Jas. 2:5; I Pet. 1:2, etc. Now we find that in the economy of redemption there is, in a sense, a division of labor: the Father is the originator, the Son the executor, and the Holy Spirit the applier. This can only be the result of a voluntary agreement among the persons of the Trinity, so that their internal relations assume the form of a covenant life. In fact, it is exactly in the trinitarian life that we find the archetype of the historical covenants, a covenant in the proper and fullest sense of the word, the parties meeting on a footing of equality, a true suntheke.
2. There are passages of Scripture which not only point to the fact that the plan of God for the salvation of sinners was eternal, Eph. 1:4; 3:9,11, but also indicate that it was of the nature of a covenant. Christ speaks of promises made to Him before his advent, and repeatedly refers to a commission which He had received from the Father, John 5:30,43; 6:38-40; 17:4-12. And in Rom. 5:12-21 and I Cor. 15:22 He is clearly regarded as a representative head, that is, as the head of a covenant.
3. Wherever we have the essential elements of a covenant, namely, contracting parties, a promise or promises, and a condition, there we have a covenant. In Ps. 2:7-9 the parties are mentioned and a promise is indicated. The Messianic character of this passage is guaranteed by Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5. Again, in Ps. 40:7-9, also attested as Messianic by the New Testament (Heb. 10:5-7), the Messiah expresses His readiness to do the Father’s will in becoming a sacrifice for sin. Christ repeatedly speaks of a task which the Father has entrusted to Him, John 6:38,39; 10:18; 17:4. The statement in Luke 22:29 is particularly significant: “I appoint unto you a kingdom, even as my Father appointed unto me.” The verb used here is diatithemi, the word from which diatheke is derived, which means to appoint by will, testament or covenant. Moreover, in John 17:5 Christ claims a reward, and in John 17:6,9,24 (cf. also Phil. 2:9-11) He refers to His people and His future glory as a reward given Him by the Father.
4. There are two Old Testament passages which connect up the idea of the covenant immediately with the Messiah, namely, Ps. 89:3, which is based on II Sam. 7:12-14, and is proved to be a Messianic passage by Heb. 1:5; and Isa. 42:6, where the person referred to is the Servant of the Lord. The connection clearly shows that this Servant is not merely Israel. Moreover, there are passages in which the Messiah speaks of God as His God, thus using covenant language, namely, Ps. 22:1, 2, and Ps. 40:8.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Sorry you do not understand such a wonderful passage.
Thank you for post this helpful link to vital truths.
Notice in 2 sam.7:12-16 is recorded an interaction with David, there are terms expressed.
Yet in psalm 89:3 it is spoken of as a Covenant.
It was not mentioned as a Covenant, but it was.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Last time I posted this table (post #47) you said you'd be back to tear it up, words to that effect, and never did.
This time, we get no rebuttal.
That the passages are wonderful, I agree with you brother.
The passage is all about salvation.
Both believers and unbelievers get a resurrection body.
Your contention that this golden chain of redemption does not speak toward salvation because the text is clear these are called, justified, and glorified, are you suggesting unsaved persons experience this?
You do not understand biblical foreknowledge is of persons, ie, the elect.
Paul makes that clear all the way down to verse 39,
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
and into what we know as Romans 9.
We have already been adopted as sons as believers;
Galatians 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
These attempts to go against truth are fruitless
George Antonios,
Correct, I did say that, but did not get back to it. Sorry about that. Getting older and after a 14 hour day, I fall asleep more than I used to.I just stopped driving about an hour ago. I did respond to it tonight, however, as it is still mistaken. I am thankful you attempted to give a scripture defense of your view.
Correct, I did say that, but did not get back to it. Sorry about that. Getting older and after a 14 hour day, I fall asleep more than I used to.I just stopped driving about an hour ago. I did respond to it tonight, however, as it is still mistaken. I am thankful you attempted to give a scripture defense of your view.
In post46, this gets right to it;
3. Wherever we have the essential elements of a covenant, namely, contracting parties, a promise or promises, and a condition, there we have a covenant. In Ps. 2:7-9 the parties are mentioned and a promise is indicated.
The Messianic character of this passage is guaranteed by Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5.
Again, in Ps. 40:7-9, also attested as Messianic by the New Testament (Heb. 10:5-7), the Messiah expresses His readiness to do the Father’s will in becoming a sacrifice for sin. Christ repeatedly speaks of a task which the Father has entrusted to Him, John 6:38,39; 10:18; 17:4.
The statement in Luke 22:29 is particularly significant: “I appoint unto you a kingdom, even as my Father appointed unto me.” The verb used here is diatithemi, the word from which diatheke is derived, which means to appoint by will, testament or covenant.
Moreover, in John 17:5 Christ claims a reward, and in John 17:6,9,24 (cf. also Phil. 2:9-11) He refers to His people and His future glory as a reward given Him by the Father.
3. Wherever we have the essential elements of a covenant, namely, contracting parties, a promise or promises, and a condition, there we have a covenant. In Ps. 2:7-9 the parties are mentioned and a promise is indicated.
The Messianic character of this passage is guaranteed by Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5.
Again, in Ps. 40:7-9, also attested as Messianic by the New Testament (Heb. 10:5-7), the Messiah expresses His readiness to do the Father’s will in becoming a sacrifice for sin. Christ repeatedly speaks of a task which the Father has entrusted to Him, John 6:38,39; 10:18; 17:4.
The statement in Luke 22:29 is particularly significant: “I appoint unto you a kingdom, even as my Father appointed unto me.” The verb used here is diatithemi, the word from which diatheke is derived, which means to appoint by will, testament or covenant.
Moreover, in John 17:5 Christ claims a reward, and in John 17:6,9,24 (cf. also Phil. 2:9-11) He refers to His people and His future glory as a reward given Him by the Father.
With much respect, your table in post #47 is a bit silly and proves the reverse of what you are suggesting.
Romans 8:29. Do you suppose that one can be conformed to the image of the Lord Jesus Christ and yet still be lost?
Romans 8:30. Do you suppose that one can be called, justified and glorified, yet still be lost?
Ephesians 1:4-5. Do you suppose that one can be adopted as a son by Christ Jesus and still be lost? Not also verse 4. Do you suppose that one can be holy and without blame before God and still be lost?
Ephesians 1:11-12. Do you suppose that one can be predestined to trust in Christ and be to the praise of His glory and yet still be lost?
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
A) Did you read the paragraph at the bottom of the table? Because it's the destiny of the believer that is thus set to inherit those things, not of the lost man. God could have saved us yet without insuring for us a resurrection body like unto his Son's.
B) You charge it of being silly, but please note that you did not address the cross-references which define the terms.
C)
There is no such verse that says a man has been predestinated [specifically] to trust in Christ.
Ephesians 1:11-12, 'In Him [Christ] also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the purpose of His will.........' Now, on the basis of that part of the verse, is there anything that is not predestined according to the purpose of His will? Do you suppose that someone can obtain an inheritance in Christ Jesus and still be lost? Yes or no? '..........that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.' Our trusting in Christ was predestined according to the purpose of His will. Do you suppose that someone who has trusted in Christ to the praise of His glory can still be lost?
It is His destiny precisely because it has been predestined.
I don't see that I need to do so. The texts are clear as I laid them out and you haven't answered the question at the end of each one.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Okay let's do this one at a time, lest we skim each other's points and get lost.
Of course there are things that are not predestinated according to the purpose of his will.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Now, certainly, according to those verses, God does indeed work all things after the counsel of his own will. The verses say that. But the verses do not say that he predestinates all things. What the verses do say, is that, within the overall framework of God working all things after the counsel of his own will, he did will to predestinate would-be believers to be to the praise of his glory.
In logical language, it would be: within A [God working all things after his will], there is B [God predestinating things]. So A has B as a subset: B ⊂ A. All Bs are As, but not all As are Bs.
Which means it is also God's will not to predestinate some things.
And of course, we can simply show from scriptures that plenty of things happen that God did not predestinate, like sin, and men going to hell [for it's his will that all men should be saved, yet most won't be saved, and that's OK, God doesn't need your help or mine protecting his "sovereignty" by reframing the verse, as it was his will to allow men to thwart his will in this matter.]
Of course there are things that are not predestinated according to the purpose of his will.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Now, certainly, according to those verses, God does indeed work all things after the counsel of his own will. The verses say that. But the verses do not say that he predestinates all things. What the verses do say, is that, within the overall framework of God working all things after the counsel of his own will, he did will to predestinate would-be believers to be to the praise of his glory.
In logical language, it would be: within A [God working all things after his will], there is B [God predestinating things]. So A has B as a subset: B ⊂ A. All Bs are As, but not all As are Bs.
Which means it is also God's will not to predestinate some things.
And of course, we can simply show from scriptures that plenty of things happen that God did not predestinate, like sin, and men going to hell [for it's his will that all men should be saved, yet most won't be saved, and that's OK, God doesn't need your help or mine protecting his "sovereignty" by reframing the verse, as it was his will to allow men to thwart his will in this matter.]
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The term Covenant of Grace or Covenant of Redemption is a logical construct of God's redemptive plan for His elect throughout all eternity. We know that sinners are saved in Christ by grace through faith. This happens in time, at the moment of conversion or the new birth. But in the mind of God, and according to His sovereign choice, the full number of the Elect has always been determined. The Bible never uses the term "Trinity" or "Hypostatic Union", yet most Christian theologians use these terms to describe biblical truth. In the same way Reformed theologians refer to God's eternal redemptive plan as a covenant.
I certainly don't believe that God allows man to thwart His decretive will (c.f. Acts of the Apostles 15:18), but we are running into speculation here which I choose not to do as we come up against verses like Isaiah 55:8-9 and Romans 11:33-36. My purpose was only to show, by examining the context of the verses, that certain men and women are predestined by God to salvation (c.f. Matthew 25:34), and this I believe I have done.
37818
Well-Known Member
Please explain how that predestination includes causing one to believe. God's truth in His natural revelation Psalms 19:4, Romans 10:18 is the means by which all men can believe, Romans 10:17. But men do resist God's grace, Acts of the Apostles 7:51, Hebrews 10:29.
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