Repentance: Easy Believism VS Hard Believism

[MartyF]

I agree people can think that way. Do you believe they are just trying to justify their own sin (that they are "forgiven" so it doesn't matter)?

Some universalists believe that. When I was teenager the idea was introduced by someone trying to fight the heresies of the RCC. Don't remember too much from then, but he was concerned that teaching repentance would make some think that repentance was needed for salvation in the same way the Catholics do - instead of saved by grace through faith.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

What are the passage that tell Christians to repent (as opposed to telling them not to sin)?

You ask here about Christians being told to repent. I only browsed through the thread just now, but it seemed to me that the argument is about people in general being told to repent. On that basis, looking at the N.T. only, you can start with Mark 1:15, go through Luke 24:27 to Acts of the Apostles 17:30; 26:20, 2 Timothy 2:25 and various other texts.

Concerning Christians there is 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 and Revelation 2:5, 16; 3:3. Also, Christians are urged to confess their sins (e.g. 1 John 1:9), which has the connotation of repentance.

The very first article of the first document of the Reformation states, 'When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said "Repent," He meant that the whole life of the believer should be one of repentance' (quoted from memory).

'Now [God] commands all men everywhere to repent.' It seems rather odd if we are not to preach it. 'And that repentance and the remission of sins should be preached to all nations.'

 

[JonC]

You ask here about Christians being told to repent. I only browsed through the thread just now, but it seemed to me that the argument is about people in general being told to repent. On that basis, looking at the N.T. only, you can start with Mark 1:15, go through Luke 24:27 to Acts of the Apostles 17:30; 26:20, 2 Timothy 2:25 and various other texts.

Concerning Christians there is 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 and Revelation 2:5, 16; 3:3. Also, Christians are urged to confess their sins (e.g. 1 John 1:9), which has the connotation of repentance.

The very first article of the first document of the Reformation states, 'When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said "Repent," He meant that the whole life of the believer should be one of repentance' (quoted from memory).

'Now [God] commands all men everywhere to repent.' It seems rather odd if we are not to preach it. 'And that repentance and the remission of sins should be preached to all nations.'

In regard to Christian repentance the 2 Corinthians passage can only apply if we assume these Christians to be unsaved (it is a godly sorrow leading to salvation rather than death).

That said, I have repeatedly said Christians should wear out that path to God's throne. We should live a life of repentance.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

In regard to Christian repentance the 2 Corinthians passage can only apply if we assume these Christians to be unsaved (it is a godly sorrow leading to salvation rather than death).

That said, I have repeatedly said Christians should wear out that path to God's throne. We should live a life of repentance.

I assume the Corinthian Christians to be saved because of 1 Corinthians 1:2-9. But you are absolutely right that Christians need to live a life of repentance, and from that it follows that church leaders should instruct their flocks to do so. As James remarks, we all fall short in many ways.

 

[JonC]

I assume the Corinthian Christians to be saved because of 1 Corinthians 1:2-9. But you are absolutely right that Christians need to live a life of repentance, and from that it follows that church leaders should instruct their flocks to do so. As James remarks, we all fall short in many ways.

In 2 Corinthians I was referencing verse 10 - For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

I guess it is like "works". Context dictates the meaning.

Nevertheless, I absolutely agree with you. We are to live lives of repentance. I think this is how we move ever-increasingly towards an inage of Christ.

We stumble and sin. Repentance leads us from that sin. God reveals to us another area that needs work.

I worry more about the professing Christian that never overcomes, that never obeys, in an area in their lives than I do about those who overcome in an area only to struggle with another.

 

[HankD]

people should keep in mind that the core meaning of the NT Greek word "repentance" (Grk-metanoia) is "to change one's mind" so it is within the ability of both the saved and the lost, the assisting power of the Spirit for those things eternal.

 

[Mikey]

Free-will faith is expressly presented in the Bible as a non-work:

the bible clearly explins that faith is not a work. this is believed by every calvinst. it is the the free willers that make faith a work, in their theology, (which you even state that logically that is true). But what you did not prove that there is such a thing as "free-will faith" and thus how it is in the bible. so showing how faith is not a work does nothing to disprove calvinsim.

so I dont really understand the point of the video.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have often said that believing on Jesus Christ is one of the easiest things i know how to do.

Once and after enabled top do such by the Holy Spirit!

 

[HankD]

Once and after enabled top do such by the Holy Spirit!

of course

 

[AustinC]

And that - slipping in "choosing" for "works", then setting that up within a false dichotomy whereby faith is "not choosing" - is a great example of sleight of men (Eph.4:14), and an apt illustration of how Calvinism can be propped up as a philosophical system.
Webster 1828: SLEIGHT, n. slite. 1. An artful trick; sly artifice; a trick or feat so dexterously performed that the manner of performance escapes observation; as sleight of hand.

Free-will faith is expressly presented in the Bible as a non-work:

Free will faith is never expressed in the Bible. How can it when faith is a gift given by God to his chosen ones.

 

[George Antonios]

How can it when faith is a gift given by God to his chosen ones.

Saving faith is not a gift of God in the Bible. There is a gift of faith as one of the gifts of the Spirit for the ministry:
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; But that's not saving faith.

I cover some of, if not all of, the verses you may think of counter-presenting in this video:

 

[Martin Marprelate]

@George Antonios,
Thanks for your video which I have now listened to. I need to listen again and take some notes, but here are some preliminary thoughts.
Firstly, you were never a Calvinist, and if you think there is such a thing as a 'four point Calvinist' you don't really understand Calvinism. That's like there being someone who's four parts pregnant! You may perhaps have been an Amyraldian, but without knowing which part you rejected, I can't be sure. I was pleased to note that you seem now to be a genuine Arminian, since you believe in the necessity of a prevenient work of grace.
Also, let me assure you that Calvinists do not believe that God 'forces' anyone to believe, nor does He prevent other people from doing so, though He does sometimes harden them in their unbelief. People do not believe because they have sinful unbelieving hearts (e.g. John 3:19). God opens the hearts of sinners to believe (Acts of the Apostles 16:14), taking away the stony heart of unbelief and giving them a soft malleable heart (c.f. Ezekiel 36:26-27); then they believe of their own free will (Psalms 110:3)

Secondly, Ephesians 2:8. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this [Gk. touto] not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.' So what is the gift of God? touto is neuter singular: 'this one thing.' The nearest antecedent is 'faith,' and therefore it is reasonable to suppose that it is faith that is the gift of God.
Moreover, repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. An unrepentant faith is what Simon Magus had, and an unbelieving repentance is what Judas Iscariot had. The very first words of our Lord's public ministry were 'repent and believe the gospel' (Mark 1:15). So what's my point? Acts of the Apostles 11:18. 'When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."'

You are, however, entirely correct about the 'faith of Christ.' More later, as I have time.