Featured But what about death?

@asterisktom,

Simple question, are you an orthodox preterist? [For reference, I am a pre-mill post-trib pre-wrath rapturist futurist.]

 

Good enough for me.

 

Does V 25 of john 11 have anything to the state of one in V 26 of John 11

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Cor 15:52-54

Is V 25 J 11 relative to those before that in bold and V 26 J 11 after that in bold?

The same can be asked of 1 Thes 4:14-18

Of course I think I understand you believe those took place somewhere around 70 AD but what about after 70 AD. When will it take place for people after 70 AD?

Being those others preceded those after 70 AD which goes against the words that say those alive will not precede those who have died.

Percho 2020 proceeds somewhere that they done went, Darn, thought we were going together.

 

Well you can be sure of one thing with all these Eschatological viewpoints, its not going to take one to heaven and its not going to keep them out either... FYI... My Dad a godly Christian man, long gone to be with the Lord, said this... I'm what they call a Pan millennialist, its all going to pan out in the end... Me, part pret and I'm waiting to see what God is going to do... His plans are in his hands, not mans... Brother Glen

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

The End Times have to do with now.

It's over when Jesus Comes Again.

Where do you first get mind boggled to make up one of the several 'Escotologies'.

Imagine The Bible Teaches an End Time that all can agree with.

I believe being naive to the structure of the Seven Visions of Revelation each spanning revealtion having to do with The Inner-Advental Era, i.e., now.

That expression, by God is undeniable that there are seven sections which reinnerate and give their own view of this one same Period of Time; the 'church age'.

Nothing is more error ridden than a regular human being just reading through The Book of Revelation and going chapter, after chapter.

The is not how The Revelation of God is Given.

Once it is seen that there is a reference to The First Advent of Christ, at His Ascension and a discription of Final Judgment in EACH of the Seven Visions, I think people would want to understand What God Wants to to Have Revealed to you.

All of the imaginary forcing and twisting and shoving that comes from reading Revelation straight through is child's play and that of a novice.

When it comes to Satan' s influence over Not Preaching that Jesus is Coming, Once, at any moment,and that that is The End and Consumation of The Universe starts to bring the word, apostasy, into play.

God never Said to leave it up to Jesus to Come, Personally, and try to persuade the lost Jews, after whatever event people wildly guess about and know that they don't really know anything, from God.

It's Horror.

So many ministers that allow themselves to be Hardshell and deny the Return of Jesus is Horror.

Nothing has to 'take place' prior to Jesus Coming.

 

I'm thinking.

 

There is a spectrum of views on death. The most obvious is a truth about death, that death is the opposite of life. And something has to be alive before it can die. There are a number of other issues, and concepts that must also be dealt with relating to how one understands the concept death.

Now regarding John 11:26, "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" There is in it a little Greek phrase typically not translated and so most Christians are ignorant of it. That Greek phrase, "εις τον αιωνα," can typically be translated as "into the age." so an agreed upon interpretation can be problematic do to this ingnorance.

 

Kind of like?

Luke 20:34-36 YLT And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage, but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the ('I am the rising again, and the life; John 11:25 YLT) rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more (to the age; John 11:26 YLT) -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.

BTW: Do people still marry and are being given in marriage?

I knew I would think of something. Thanks 37818

 

In this age there is yet marrage. Into the age [to come, Revelation 21:1] there is no more marrage or death.

 

Granted, they have been dead about 2000 years.

 

And when is the change over between the two ages?

70 AD?

Still future?

Different for people living at different times?

Maybe?
I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign --
henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of the righteousness that the Lord -- the Righteous Judge -- shall give to me in that day, and not only to me, but also to all those loving his manifestation.
2 Tim 4:1,8

 

The transition between the two ages is the finial Judgemet, Revelation 20:11, the old Heaven and Earth passes away, ". . . the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." The New Heaven and Earth follows, Revelation 21:1.

 

Here is a passage I'm sure was written before 70 AD therefore It should apply.

And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, that ye may not sorrow, as also the rest who have not hope, for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him, for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep, because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be; so, then, comfort ye one another in these words. 1 Thes 4:13-18

In faith died all these, not having received the promises, Heb 11:13, and these all, having been testified to through the faith, did not receive the promise, Heb 11:39
Why, then, the law? on account of the transgressions it was added, till the seed might come to which the promise hath been made, having been set in order through messengers in the hand of a mediator -- Gal 3:19 -- Just a note. the seed and the promise there are singular. What does the promise do that the law could not do? V 20 Make alive and therefore bring righteousness. What is the promise that was for the singular seed, Christ that makes alive. Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, --- Does, "hope," have anything to do with the faith? Heb 11:1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,

but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin (IE dead in trespasses and sin), that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, ---- Is that the faith those of Heb 11 died in?

It was the heir of God who inherited, by resurrection out of the dead, the promised, "hope," eternal life becoming, the faith. Heb 12:2 Looking into to the, of the faith, author and perfecter, Jesus ----- Was the resurrection out of the dead necessary to, faith? 1 Cor 15:17 and if Christ hath not risen, vain the faith of you, ye are yet in your sins;

So also. What does the so also refer to in 1 Thes 4:14? Isn't it Christ being raised out of the dead?
So V 17. What does it refer to? Does it not mean in order to be ever, "with," the Lord we need to be raised out of the dead and or changed as in 1 Cor 15:51


?????? When Christ spoke in Matt 22 were Abraham, Isaac and Jacob literally dead in faith, Dead in Christ being obedient unto death and being raised out of the dead?



And being you believe they were raised 70 AD ish was it absolutely necessary for them to follow Christ in being raised out of the dead in order to be made alive?

Was the resurrection of Christ absolutely necessary? Is the resurrection of those who die absolutely necessary to being with the Lord?

What About Death?