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A Text for the Calvinist

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Van said:
I see we are at 4 pages, and so this response only addressees the OP, and does not address any subsequent claims.

The first truth to jump off the page is "many will seek to enter" which contradicts the false doctrine that the fallen are unable to seek God at any time.

Next, the false doctrine of "irresistible grace" is shown to be bogus, as many of those striving are not able to enter.

The "contend and struggle" refers to people going "all in" for Jesus. If you only go in at the shallow end of the pool, like soil #2, you will not have your faith credited as righteousness. OTOH, if you go in at the deep end of the pool, but wear a life jacket of worldly treasures, like soil #3, your faith also will not be credited. I expect all of us who have committed our lives to Christ know of the struggle.

Finally, justification by faith, if unpacked properly, is a valid doctrine. How are we justified? When God places us spiritually into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration (we are born anew) and the circumcision of Christ, where what God held against us is taken out of the way and nailed to the cross. So we were justified by the faithfulness of Christ, and not by anything we did, and we received that justification when God placed us spiritually into Christ, based on God alone crediting our faith as righteousness. So when you fully unpack the doctrine, it is spot on.
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Look at the question in verse 23, "And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them". Which about the number of those who will finally be saved. To THIS question, Jesus answers, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won't be able". Note, the Lord is asking US to "Make every effort to enter", which means that the sinner has to DO something, which Jesus says is, "“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”. I will never understand why there sre those who fight against what God Incarnate says, Who they say they follow, and distort the plain Gospel Message, and take away from it the all important requirement for salvation of REPENTANCE? Surely this is the work of the devil, who is very much against sinners getting saved!
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Look at the question in verse 23, "And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them". Which about the number of those who will finally be saved. To THIS question, Jesus answers, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won't be able". Note, the Lord is asking US to "Make every effort to enter", which means that the sinner has to DO something, which Jesus says is, "“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”. I will never understand why there sre those who fight against what God Incarnate says, Who they say they follow, and distort the plain Gospel Message, and take away from it the all important requirement for salvation of REPENTANCE? Surely this is the work of the devil, who is very much against sinners getting saved!
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A) This is the gospel of the kingdom that is being preached, not the gospel of the grace of God.
It's a Jewish, works-based gospel to enter the physical kingdom; not a Gentile, grace-based gospel to enter heaven.

B) Thus "repentance" is defined by scriptures in different ways depending on the dispensational context.

 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Luke 13:24 says,

“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able"

It here clearly says that the sinner was to "make every effort", where the Greek word, "ἀγωνίζομαι", means to "contend, struggle, to endeavor with strenuous zeal", etc. to get into heaven. Why the need for this, if as Reformed theology teaches that only the "elect", who have been "preordained" to eternal life, even before the world was created, can ever be saved? If the "elect" have their destination preordained for them, then surely there is no need to "contend or struggle" to get into heaven!. "contend or struggle" means that they have to DO something, which means "Justification by faith alone (which is nowhere taught in the Bible)", is wrong!
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Let us look at the whole passage to understand the sentence.

Luke 13:22-30 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

I highlighted the question and Jesus ultimate answer to the question.

You can see that the answer is...many will be saved from east, west, north and south.

What, then is the meaning of seeking to enter through the narrow door and people not being able to enter?
Notice who the doorkeeper is. Who controls the opening and shutting of the door? Is it the person on the outside or is it the master? Why is it that some on the outside, who seek, are not able to get in. Are they just really bad at getting through a narrow door? Are they too far? Do they even make the choice or does the doorkeeper decide?

Go to the Whitehouse and search for a narrow gate entrance. Will you be allowed in if you find it? Who determines if you can enter in to the Whitehouse?

Do you imagine God's house is easier to enter than the Whitehouse?
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Jesus Christ is The ONLY Way, why would you ask me that? "Justification by Faith alone", is a Biblical impossibility, as it removes the necessity of the sinner to also REPENT. Jesus Himself says this in Mark 1:15, "REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel". He does not says simply BELIEVE. Repentance is NOT a "work" as the Reformed wrongly conclude, it is agreeing with God that as a sinner, they must have "godly sorrow" for this sins and ask to be forgiven. "Justification by Faith alone" is an inaccurate discription of the True Gospel.
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Your teaching is "saved by works" not grace.

You are correct that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You are incorrect to demand that repentance be the cause which makes God react and grant you salvation.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Your teaching is "saved by works" not grace.

You are correct that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You are incorrect to demand that repentance be the cause which makes God react and grant you salvation.
Click to expand...

so you know more than the Lord Jesus Himself, Who very clearly said that sinners must "REPENT and BELIEVE"? (Mark 1:15)
 
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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Let us look at the whole passage to understand the sentence.

Luke 13:22-30 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

I highlighted the question and Jesus ultimate answer to the question.

You can see that the answer is...many will be saved from east, west, north and south.

What, then is the meaning of seeking to enter through the narrow door and people not being able to enter?
Notice who the doorkeeper is. Who controls the opening and shutting of the door? Is it the person on the outside or is it the master? Why is it that some on the outside, who seek, are not able to get in. Are they just really bad at getting through a narrow door? Are they too far? Do they even make the choice or does the doorkeeper decide?

Go to the Whitehouse and search for a narrow gate entrance. Will you be allowed in if you find it? Who determines if you can enter in to the Whitehouse?

Do you imagine God's house is easier to enter than the Whitehouse?
Click to expand...

This does NOT anwser the question what Jesus meant by "strive to enter the narrow gate", to salvation. This is the typical response of the Reformed?Calvinist. Throw a lot of theology around, never deal what the teachings of the Bible as they are without putting a spin on them!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
Look at the question in verse 23, "And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them". Which about the number of those who will finally be saved. To THIS question, Jesus answers, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won't be able". Note, the Lord is asking US to "Make every effort to enter", which means that the sinner has to DO something, which Jesus says is, "“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”. I will never understand why there sre those who fight against what God Incarnate says, Who they say they follow, and distort the plain Gospel Message, and take away from it the all important requirement for salvation of REPENTANCE? Surely this is the work of the devil, who is very much against sinners getting saved!
Click to expand...
Only the sheep will follow the Shepherd of their souls!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Not machines, but lost sinners who can do nothing in and by themselves for their salvation!
Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit convicts the sinner of their sins and need for forgiveness and Repentance which is in Jesus Christ. the sinner then responds to this conviction by turning to the Lord in repentance (godly sorrow), and believes in the complete finished work of Jesus Christ
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
This does NOT anwser the question what Jesus meant by "strive to enter the narrow gate", to salvation. This is the typical response of the Reformed?Calvinist. Throw a lot of theology around, never deal what the teachings of the Bible as they are without putting a spin on them!
Click to expand...
Who are those able to even strive to get on the narrow row?
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
The Holy Spirit convicts the sinner of their sins and need for forgiveness and Repentance which is in Jesus Christ. the sinner then responds to this conviction by turning to the Lord in repentance (godly sorrow), and believes in the complete finished work of Jesus Christ
Click to expand...
All of that process is the direct working of God towards the lost sinner, as he has chosen them to be one of his flock!
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Only the sheep will follow the Shepherd of their souls!
Click to expand...

The Calvinistic glasses here frame the "sheep" as an elected-unto-salvation group of men from eternity past.
All that sheep are, are men who have a love of truth/the words of God.
When Christ says ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep (Jn.10:26) it's the equivalent of a Christian answering a Mormon who's claiming to be a Christian but rejects the deity of Christ with
"you believe not because you are not a Christian".

It's that simple, unless you put on Augustine's and Calvin's glasses.
 
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