Question for Calvinists

[Yeshua1]

Why wasn't it?

Quantrill

God does not play favorites does he?

 

[Quantrill]

God does not play favorites does he?

Of course He does. Don't misunderstand, I am not complaining against God. I have no problem with Gods choices.

(Deut. 7:6) "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth."

Quantrill

 

[AustinC]

Why wasn't it?

Quantrill

Please start a new thread on this topic: Is God racist?
Define racism since we all may have different definitions.
I have my biblical opinions on this, but don't want to derail this thread any further.

 

[Quantrill]

Please start a new thread on this topic: Is God racist?
Define racism since we all may have different definitions.
I have my biblical opinions on this, but don't want to derail this thread any further.

It appears to me the initial post concerned this subject. I don't see how this is derailing the thread. If you want to start another, go ahead. I will participate.

Quantrill

 

[Van]

Nope, didn't miss it. I just believe the Bible when it TELLS ME EXPLICITLY they were already chosen.

But since the Bible tells me no one was individually chosen before creation because once we were not a people of God. But of course, once we were individually chosen, it was by means of being set apart in Christ on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

 

[Van]

Does Unlimited Atonement provide the basis for for absurd beliefs like God cannot exist?

• God is by definition OMNIPOTENT (all powerful).
• If God atoned for all sin, then all sin has been forgiven.
• If someone goes to hell, then their sin was not atoned for.
• If God attempted to atone for all sin, but all sin was not atoned for, then God is not omnipotent.
• Since God must be omnipotent by definition, but God is not omnipotent in reality, then in reality, God does not exist.

Does Unlimited Atonement provide the basis for for other absurd beliefs like Universalism?

Note folks, the Calvinists do not answer questions, they create a smokescreed by asking questions designed to imply their opponents hold unbiblical views. Disingenuous.

Note also the disingenuous redefinition of Christ dying for all mankind as meaning God has saved all mankind. This is the sort on nonsense these people post nonstop.

 

[Van]

Does the Lord HAVE to be saving all lost sinners, is it wrong somehow if he chooses a way that you do not support?

Smokescreed, and not answering the question, does limited atonement, Christ not dying for all mankind, provide the basis for calling God a racist?

 

[Van]

If I am not mistaken it was me who made the statement that God and Christ were racist. I gave Scripture to support my statement, I make no apology for it. I have no problem with being racist, or with God being racist.

In America 'racism', slavery, hate, inequality, bias, are identified as 'evil'. Thus American Christians must bow to this PC ideology. This means God must not support slavery, hate, bias, or inequality. This means they must interpret the Bible in light of their acceptance of this PC ideology.

So they have, and so they do.

I do not base my beliefs on Calvinism. I base them on Scripture.

Quantrill

Your views are nonsense Sir, and as one person put it, outrageous.
I showed you that your referenced verses did not support your conclusion.
Scripture, the word of God, taught that "racism, slavery, hate, inequality, and bias are evil."

Lets see if you will answer this question, which of the five points of the TULIP do you claim are false doctrine.

 

[atpollard]

Note also the disingenuous redefinition of Christ dying for all mankind as meaning God has saved all mankind. This is the sort on nonsense these people post nonstop.

There was no redefining of anything. Do you know what "atonement" means?

atonement
noun atone·ment | \ ə-ˈtōn-mənt
1 : reparation for an offense or injury : satisfaction
2 : the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

So did Jesus make "reparation for an offense or injury" and achieve "the reconciliation of God and humankind" for every person or not? Limited Atonement says "No." and Universal Atonement says "Yes."

 

[atpollard]

God does not play favorites does he?

I dunno, ask Esau.

 

[Van]

There was no redefining of anything. Do you know what "atonement" means?

atonement
noun atone·ment | \ ə-ˈtōn-mənt
1 : reparation for an offense or injury : satisfaction
2 : the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

So did Jesus make "reparation for an offense or injury" and achieve "the reconciliation of God and humankind" for every person or not? Limited Atonement says "No." and Universal Atonement says "Yes."

You have no idea what atonement means. Your definition above is "home cooked."

Here is an actual view of its biblical usage:

1. exchange
   
   1. of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values
      
2. adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour
   
   1. in the NT of the restoration of the favour of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ

Thus reconciliation is achieved, not when Christ died as a ransom for all, but when God places individuals into Christ where they undergo the washing of regeneration.

 

[Van]

Will any Calvinist even give a reason for Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all? One quy says God is a racist.

 

[atpollard]

You have no idea what atonement means. Your definition above is "home cooked."

Sorry chief, my "home cooked" definition came from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.
"Atonement" does not appear in the NT, so it's "Biblical usage" meaning has nothing to do with Jesus except as a typology.

The word in Hebrew is kaphar and here is its outline of Biblical usage:

1. to cover, purge, make an atonement, make reconciliation, cover over with pitch
   
   1. (Qal) to coat or cover with pitch
      
      
   2. (Piel)
      
      1. to cover over, pacify, propitiate
         
         
      2. to cover over, atone for sin, make atonement for
         
         
      3. to cover over, atone for sin and persons by legal rites
         
   3. (Pual)
      
      1. to be covered over
         
         
      2. to make atonement for
         
   4. (Hithpael) to be covered

So once again ... Were all people "covered over" by Jesus? Were "their sins atoned" for? Were they "reconciled"?

[The outline of Biblical Usage came from Larry Pierce and the Online Bible. I could offer Strong’s Definitions or Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon instead if you have a preference.].

 

[atpollard]

Will any Calvinist even give a reason for Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all?

God doesn't fail.

 

[Yeshua1]

There was no redefining of anything. Do you know what "atonement" means?

atonement
noun atone·ment | \ ə-ˈtōn-mənt
1 : reparation for an offense or injury : satisfaction
2 : the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ

So did Jesus make "reparation for an offense or injury" and achieve "the reconciliation of God and humankind" for every person or not? Limited Atonement says "No." and Universal Atonement says "Yes."

Either God the Father intended to have the Cross of Christ save all sinners, or for those whom he died in the stead of!

 

[Reformed1689]

But since the Bible tells me no one was individually chosen before creation because once we were not a people of God. But of course, once we were individually chosen, it was by means of being set apart in Christ on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

And where does the Bible say that Van? Oh wait...

 

[Reformed1689]

Will any Calvinist even give a reason for Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all? One quy says God is a racist.

Get off the racist bit. It's ridiculous. And why did God choose not to save all? You will have to ask Him.

 

[Quantrill]

Your views are nonsense Sir, and as one person put it, outrageous.
I showed you that your referenced verses did not support your conclusion.
Scripture, the word of God, taught that "racism, slavery, hate, inequality, and bias are evil."

Lets see if you will answer this question, which of the five points of the TULIP do you claim are false doctrine.

Nonsense, outrageous, mean nothing to me. Scripture does. No, you showed me nothing. Which is why you probably started another thread.

Where is racism, slavery, hate, inequality, and bias declared as evil? Remember (Deut. 7:6) (Matt. 15:21-28) (John 4:22)

I'm not interested in TULIP.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Will any Calvinist even give a reason for Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all? One quy says God is a racist.

I never said Christ didn't lay down His life for all. He did. So?

Quantrill

 

[AustinC]

But since the Bible tells me no one was individually chosen before creation because once we were not a people of God. But of course, once we were individually chosen, it was by means of being set apart in Christ on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

Please show us this verse that says "no one was individually chosen before creation because once we were not a people of God."

There is a reason why you have to make this corporate. What is it that scares you about individual election?