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Featured Calvinism and Context ?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Sep 13, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    No verses there ?
     
  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Its appointed once to die ,then the judgement . No one will be getting a second chance after death. All those who are not found written in the ' book ' will not be glorified. There destination will be hell sadly .
     
  3. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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    If everyone's sins are paid for, unbelief being one of them I presume, then on what basis is anyone lost??
     
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 9:11-28 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

    Hebrews 9 is clear. It is also evident that the atonement is limited to the many.

    Barry, I cannot make you believe the Bible. One day, however, you will no longer be able to hide behind a loophole of your own design. You will have to face what God says and accept your place in His Kingdom.
     
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Therefore the atonement is not universal. It is limited to those God has made alive and given faith to believe.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Barry, you have significantly complicated the gospel and added many requirements.

    God makes a person alive and saves by grace, through the gift of faith. We would not be righteous if Jesus had not atoned for our sins. Read Hebrews 9.
     
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    According to your view the only thing that determines life with God or life in hell is ones belief or unbelief. Many unbelievers will go to hell, fully made perfect by Jesus atoning sacrifice, making the atonement ineffective and useless, but condemned because they chose not to believe. Only a person's willfully, man determined choice to believe or not believe will save or not save them.
    This sounds like a Nazarene/Wesleyan position where you can gain or lose salvation by whether you believe or don't believe at any given moment. Your eternity depends on you.
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Your not really addressing my response. The Atonement does not glorify anyone. Your begging the question q
    Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)

    Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

    Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

    When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.
    Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

    Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

    13. The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

    14. The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

    15. What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)

    16. Belief that salvation for anyone was secured on the cross constitutes a denial of the necessity of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:17)

    17. Salvation is eternally secured by the sealing of the spirit, not “election.” (Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor. 1:22)
     
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    You said /// According to your view the only thing that determines life with God or life in hell is ones belief or unbelief. ///
    Exactly by faith is the access to the grace .
    By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    Rom 5.2
     
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Many requirements? what are you talking about . ' Through faith ' how many things do you see there ?
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense . It only APPLIES to those that RECIEVE .Yes he has done those things for everyone who would recieve through faith .
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The atonement pays for and redeems a person. You are avoiding the obvious.

    God's grace is what saves. Read Ephesians 2:1-9

    Atonement is limited and thus only those whom God has redeemed will be glorified. So using your dissection...both are limited. If we hold your version then everyone is fully redeemed, yet God only acknowledges redemption of the persons who willfully choose to believe. Are you incapable of seeing your legalistic, works based method of salvation that completely ignores grace?
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You negate grace and insert the law. You do not preach the gospel.
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I see you preaching your own conjured belief and claiming it to be faith.
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    And here you show your salvation by the law, apart from grace. Thank you for such revelation that you are not preaching the gospel.
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Your theology is confusing you . No one was saved by his death . Thats your confusion . Your confused by the 5 false points of the system. It would serve you well to learn the biblical components of salvation . The only way you will see it ,is to stop thinking calvinism .
     
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Grace is a ubiquitous reality, not a selective force. (Tit. 2:11-13)

    Grace is just fine on it’s own as it’s found in scripture. Any modifier other than “free,” such as “sovereign,” “irresistible,” or “prevenient” indicate someone is either confused or attempting to confuse. (Rom. 3:24; 5:15; Jn. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-13)
     
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Faith comes by hearing the word of God . Your theology has messed with your thinking. The Gospel IS the power Of God ( The dynamite if you will ) to salvation .
    16¶For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    What law ?
    Eph 2
    14¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    col 2
    13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    By your statement we can see that Jesus death was unnecessary in your theology and therefore wasted on humanity.
    I am not confused. I am in direct conflict with your non-gospel teaching.
     
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