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Yahweh and Jesus Christ

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Confused about what? You are one who thought I denied that God was a Trinity of Persons. When I had made an arguement that God had to be a Trinity of Persons. That there is no way He could not be a Trinity. The Trinity of Persons are essential to there being a God. To word this differently.
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then what are you banging on about??? :Frown
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
THE Angel of the Lord in the OT ois always God appearing in that form!
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You would think the law of averages would result in Y1 being on target about 50% of the time. Why he is usually wrong is amazing.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Van said:
You would think the law of averages would result in Y1 being on target about 50% of the time. Why he is usually wrong is amazing.
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You have in the OT when THE Angel of the Lord was not God Himself appearing then?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
The first reference to God by Name Genesis 2:4.
The first reference to "And the Angel of the LORD" Genesis 16:7.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
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SavedByGrace said:
Here is another.

"Draw near to Me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there. And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit” (Isaiah 48, verse 16)

The Speaker is “Yahweh”, and He is said to be sent by another Person, Who is, “Yahweh Elohim”.

The Speaker in this verse, as the passage will show, is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

The words in this verse are like those found in verse 3, “I have declared the former things from the beginning”, and verse 5, “I have even from the beginning declared it to you”. In verse 12 and 13 the Speaker says, “Listen to Me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He, I am the First, I also am the Last. My hand has also laid the foundation of the earth”. Language that can hardly be use by Isaiah, or any other human being! Then, in verse 15 we read, “I, even I have spoken, yes, and I have called him”. In the very next verse, we read, “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go”. As the Speaker of verse 16 here continues, it is clear that He is Yahweh, Who is Speaking, and not the Prophet Isaiah. This same Speaker also says, “Listen, O coastlands, to Me, And take heed, you peoples from afar! The Lord has called Me from the womb” (49:1). In verse 5 He is called “His Servant”, which clearly can only refer to Jesus Christ. None of these things could have been said by the Prophet Isaiah.
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Yes, this example shows that Yahweh sent the speaker, so here the Father is called Yahweh. Thanks for the enlightenment.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
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Usually the Second Person of the Trinity is interacting with humans, and so most of the Yahweh references in scripture refer to God the Son. However, at times, Yahweh is applied to another Person of the Trinity, as shown by SavedbyGrace's reference to Isaiah 48:16. Thus it is wrong to say Yahweh exclusively refers to either God the Son, or to the Trinity. As SavedbyGrace said, it depends, and examples of more than one usage have been cited.
 
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percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
just read Genesis chapter 18, and you will see that one of the 3 "Men", is called Yahweh, who sits with Abraham, and eats and drinks with him, and then in the next chapter He is there when Sodom and Gomorrah are judged
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Which one of those three men was Yahweh and who were the other two and what were there names? Did all three talk with Abraham or was the LORD speaking to Abraham through them and or one of them? It is not real clear to me.

What about 19:13?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
percho said:
Which one of those three men was Yahweh and who were the other two and what were there names? Did all three talk with Abraham or was the LORD speaking to Abraham through them and or one of them? It is not real clear to me.

What about 19:13?
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When Yahweh is the Speaker, the Hebrew word is just that, Yahweh. Like in 18:1 (and vers. 13, 14, 17, 19, 20, 22, 26 ) in verse 3 (27, 30,,etc) Abraham, not knowning Who his visitors are, uses the Hebrew, Ădônây. In 19:13, both are Yahweh.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Give to us an OT time when the Angel of the Lord was not God!
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My own personal observation is the reaction of the “angel” when people fall on their face to worship. If a created being, they will not accept the worship and rebuke the person. If God, He will accept the worship.

Now, people don’t always have enough sense to worship God, at first anyway, so not worshipping doesn’t always indicate anything.

If I remember correctly, those appearances are called “Christophanies” (unsure the spelling) and are a pre-incarnate appearance of the Eternal Son as either a man or The Angel of the Lord. I believe He identified Himself to Joshua as “The Captain of the Lord’s Hosts” or words to that effect.

If “The Angel of the Lord” accepts the worship of men, then He is God the Son.

peace to you
 
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