How does your theology deal with the following

[percho]

You did not answer anything, but thank you for quoting scripture. It's always good to read God's word.

Sure I did. When the final nail is pulled out of the coffin the children of Abram/Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel will be the sons of the Living God.

Scripture paraphrased.

 

[AustinC]

Sure I did. When the final nail is pulled out of the coffin the children of Abram/Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel will be the sons of the Living God.

Scripture paraphrased.

Nope, that doesn't answer the question I asked.

 

[Reynolds]

Would you care to exegete the passage from Genesis 22? This will help everyone with context.

Genesis 22:13-19 And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son. So Abraham called the name of that place, “The Lord will provide”; as it is said to this day, “On the mount of the Lord it shall be provided.” And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven and said, “By myself I have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.” So Abraham returned to his young men, and they arose and went together to Beersheba. And Abraham lived at Beersheba.

"As" means innumerable in this context.
Can you even number every Jew alive today, muchless all ever born?

 

[AustinC]

"As" means innumerable in this context.
Can you even number every Jew alive today, muchless all ever born?

"I will bless you...and your offspring"

Is that blessing universal to those who are not the offspring of God, or is it particular to a limited group (ie, the children of the promise)?

 

[37818]

for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, Rom 8:20 YLT

I believe that in bold above was done before iGod rested on that first Sabbath Day. Adam most certainly did not cause it. Not of its will but because of Him - God.

The bold refers to a condition that was because of what pertains to the fall. If before the six days in Genesis 1 then we must suppose that is having to do with angels. (Compare Matthew 25:41.)

 

[Van]

How does scripture deal with those who never heard the gospel, and therefore died in unbelief. They are condemned.
Does God treat those who never heard the gospel unjustly? No, they face perfect justice, no more and no less.

 

[37818]

How does scripture deal with those who never heard the gospel, and therefore died in unbelief. They are condemned.
Does God treat those who never heard the gospel unjustly? No, they face perfect justice, no more and no less.

Rpmans 2:11-16, "For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another: ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

 

[AustinC]

How does scripture deal with those who never heard the gospel, and therefore died in unbelief. They are condemned.
Does God treat those who never heard the gospel unjustly? No, they face perfect justice, no more and no less.

How is condemnation just, if Jesus atonement is universal and paid for the sins of the universal world of men?

 

[Van]

How is condemnation just, if Jesus atonement is universal and paid for the sins of the universal world of men?

Because your understanding of what Christ accomplished on the cross is as bogus as a three dollar bill. On and on they post falsehood after falsehood. Were those heading for destruction "bought" with the blood of Christ? Yes. Did His death remove what God held again the false teacher? Nope. 2 Peter 2:1

Christ's death provides the means of salvation for all mankind, but to have your sins set aside, God must place you spiritually into Christ, into His propitiatory shelter.

In Christ = sins removed
Not in Christ = sins not removed

This is really simple...

 

[AustinC]

Because your understanding of what Christ accomplished on the cross is as bogus as a three dollar bill. On and on they post falsehood after falsehood. Were those heading for destruction "bought" with the blood of Christ? Yes. Did His death remove what God held again the false teacher? Nope. 2 Peter 2:1

Christ's death provides the means of salvation for all mankind, but to have your sins set aside, God must place you spiritually into Christ, into His propitiatory shelter.

In Christ = sins removed
Not in Christ = sins not removed

This is really simple...

We are specifically addressing atonement, Van. Stay on topic and answer the question.

"How is condemnation just, if Jesus atonement is universal and paid for the sins of the universal world of men?"

When you say:

In Christ = sins removed
Not in Christ = sins not removed

You are declaring limited atonement. This is a fact.
When you say:

Were those heading for destruction "bought" with the blood of Christ? Yes. Did His death remove what God held again the false teacher? Nope

You are saying that Jesus blood is not effective for most people and for those people, Jesus died in vain.

Van, you write conflicted messages that are inconsistent with what God has revealed.

Answer the question:
"How is condemnation just, if Jesus atonement is universal and paid for the sins of the universal world of men?"

 

[Van]

We are specifically addressing atonement, Van. SNIP "

Yet another Triple F post. Did anyone have their sin removed when Christ died on the cross? Nope, sin is removed by the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ which occurs when an individual is placed spiritually into Christ. Thus Christ's death provides the means of salvation.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another Triple F post. Did anyone have their sin removed when Christ died on the cross? Nope, sin is removed by the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ which occurs when an individual is placed spiritually into Christ. Thus Christ's death provides the means of salvation.

Once again, we are talking about atonement. Do you not understand what atonement is?

"Atonement is a reference to the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made in order to reconcile sinners to a holy God."

Sinners are made holy and righteous by Jesus sacrificial payment for their sins.

To say that Jesus atonement is universal, therefore means that all sinners are made holy by Jesus sacrificial payment.

Can a just God throw people into hell whose sins have been fully paid for?

So...did Jesus fail as the means of regeneration through his atonement or was Jesus successful? If he was successful, how then can people, whose sins are atoned for, be sent to hell?

Van, you got some explaining to do. Your cop-out, above, doesn't address the issue, but it certainly avoids the issue.

 

[percho]

The bold refers to a condition that was because of what pertains to the fall. If before the six days in Genesis 1 then we must suppose that is having to do with angels. (Compare Matthew 25:41.)

If it pertained to the fall. man would have willingly subjected himself to vanity.

The creation was subjected.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 1:31 2:1

It was subjected for the very purpose of, hope.

Hope, that had been foreordained before the foundation of the world.

 

[percho]

Yet another Triple F post. Did anyone have their sin removed when Christ died on the cross? Nope, sin is removed by the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ which occurs when an individual is placed spiritually into Christ. Thus Christ's death provides the means of salvation.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[fn] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive ( or quickened) by (to) the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:18
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken (shall be making live) also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11
for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings,
for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen, and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;

What allowed for our sins to be washed away in the blood, of Christ?

Christ being raised out of the dead, by Spirit the God, the Father of him. Christ who had poured out his soul unto death, being quickened, made alive, to the Spirit.

I will elaborate on, Spirit the God, the Father of him.

In the Greek of John 4:23,24 Does Jesus state the the Father desires the ones worshiping Him, Spirit the God, to worship Him in Spirit and Truth?

Is that the One Gal. 1:1 states raised Jesus Christ out of the dead?

 

[Van]

Once again, we are talking about atonement. Do you not understand what atonement is?

"Atonement is a reference to the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made in order to reconcile sinners to a holy God."

Sinners are made holy and righteous by Jesus sacrificial payment for their sins.

To say that Jesus atonement is universal, therefore means that all sinners are made holy by Jesus sacrificial payment.

Can a just God throw people into hell whose sins have been fully paid for?

So...did Jesus fail as the means of regeneration through his atonement or was Jesus successful? If he was successful, how then can people, whose sins are atoned for, be sent to hell?

Van, you got some explaining to do. Your cop-out, above, doesn't address the issue, but it certainly avoids the issue.

LOL, the above fiction is party line Calvinist bunk.
Christ's sacrifice provides the means of reconciliation if God places them spiritually into Christ.
To say Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, those to be saved, and those never to be saved simply expresses 1 Timothy 2:6 and 2 Peter 2:1.
Then, I kid you not, this poster regurgitates the old "double jeopardy chestnut" of paying for sins twice. Which consitutes citing a fiction to support a fiction.

Did anyone have their sin removed when Christ died on the cross? Nope, sin is removed by the washing of regeneration, the circumcision of Christ which occurs when an individual is placed spiritually into Christ. Thus Christ's death provides the means of salvation.

 

[Van]

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[fn] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive ( or quickened) by (to) the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:18
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken (shall be making live) also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11
for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings, and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings,
for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen, and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;

What allowed for our sins to be washed away in the blood, of Christ?

Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

Christ's resurrection demonstrates His sacrifice was acceptable to God for the forgiveness of sins.

This is basic Christianity 101

 

[AustinC]

Any reader can see the error of our friend, above. To respond to his dishonesty is the task of speaking to a wall and expecting the wall to respond. I am done.

 

[37818]

If it pertained to the fall. man would have willingly subjected himself to vanity.

The creation was subjected.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 1:31 2:1

It was subjected for the very purpose of, hope.

Hope, that had been foreordained before the foundation of the world.

Titus 1:2, before time.

 

[percho]

Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

Christ's resurrection demonstrates His sacrifice was acceptable to God for the forgiveness of sins.

This is basic Christianity 101

explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.” Acts 17:2

John Gill on 1 Cor 15:17
ye are yet in your sins: in a state of nature and unregeneracy, under the power and dominion of sin, being neither regenerated nor sanctified; for regeneration is owing to the resurrection of Christ from the dead, and is a branch of the power, virtue, and efficacy of it: but if Christ is not risen, there never was, is, or will be any such thing as regeneration and sanctification; things, if ever wrought by the Spirit, are done by him in virtue, and in imitation of the resurrection, as well as the death of Christ: moreover, if Christ is not risen, his people are under the guilt of their sins; there is no expiation nor remission of them, nor justification from them; for though he was delivered as a sacrifice to atone for their offences, and his blood was shed to obtain the forgiveness of their sins, yet he must be raised again for their justification, and be exalted as a Prince and a Saviour, as to give repentance, so remission of sins, or they will never enjoy these blessings; for notwithstanding his sufferings and death, if he lies under the power of the grave, they must remain under the power and guilt of sin, and be liable to everlasting punishment for it.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33

Did that actually take place? How important to the shedding forth of the Spirit was the resurrection out of the dead? How was a dead Jesus going to send the Spirit?

and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:39

 

[Van]

explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.” Acts 17:2

The view Christ's death, His shedding of Blood was not the means of salvation is a fiction.

For the second time, Percho, the fact Christ arose demonstrates God accepted His sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Period, end of story. Full Stop