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Whats wrong with Calvinists ?

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Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Verse.
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" Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." ( John 8:58 ).

" And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." ( Exodus 3:14 ).

Almost the same that @AustinC said.;)
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
" Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." ( John 8:58 ).

" And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." ( Exodus 3:14 ).

Almost the same that @AustinC said.;)
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Missing the point (intentionally?)
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
George Antonios said:
There are different bodies. The church is bride of the Son. Israel is the Father's wife. Then there will also be virgins and concubines and queens and best men at the marriage of the Son. Not all who are saved across the ages are part of the same body. The church is all those saved from the cross to the rapture. Those saved in the tribulation form a different set.
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Not in the bible.Total fabrication
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
Not in the bible.Total fabrication
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Son 6:8 There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
Son 6:9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

Joh_3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
Just a bit of hubris for YOU to keep telling ME what I think and know. :Thumbsdown
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No, I already said that you can know from the scriptures, if you read up, and you know I call you brother.
I'm saying that you can't be deriving your assurance from the system. The Calvinist system doesn't allow it.
If you have assurance, it's because you're bucking the Calvinist system.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
No, I already said that you can know from the scriptures, if you read up, and you know I call you brother.
I'm saying that you can't be deriving your assurance from the system. The Calvinist system doesn't allow it.
If you have assurance, it's because you're bucking the Calvinist system.
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I disagree with your assertion that there is a "system." If there is one, it is merely to observe what God says and thus declare it as so.
Where we disagree is likely in what passage helps interpret another passage.

Often my disagreement with another brother lies in the view that my brother ignores context in his prooftext, which leads to incorrect discernment of scripture.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
I disagree with your assertion that there is a "system." If there is one, it is merely to observe what God says and thus declare it as so.
Where we disagree is likely in what passage helps interpret another passage.

Often my disagreement with another brother lies in the view that my brother ignores context in his prooftext, which leads to incorrect discernment of scripture.
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I think we all agree with that.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Take the man himself, John Calvin, he did not believe in any "limited atonement", but did believe in "election",as taught by todays "Reformed". As both go together, you cannot believe in the "U", without the "L". I have books by Calvinists, where they say that sinners must repent from their sins are turn to the Lord; and in the same book claim that they actually do nothing!
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If you think they claim both you are missing something....
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
This is a statement contradicted by scripture and taught by no "Calvinist" that I know. Certainly the Doctrines of Grace do not teach that Perseverance of the Saints means "You cannot know that you are a Saint until you have Persevered to the end". It teaches exactly the opposite. The Saints, the Elect, those CHOSEN by God will persevere to the end because God is able to make them persevere to the end. Charles Spurgeon taught no such nonsense as you claim. R.C.Sproul taught no such nonsense as you claim.

So once again, a non-Calvinist that is an expert on what Calvinists believe raising up and tearing down yet another strawman.
[Sigh] I would claim to be surprised, but the truth is this is just "par for the course". :Barefoot

Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solus Christus
Sola Scriptura
Soli Deo Gloria
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You've literally affirmed what George said about lordship salvation.
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
"I would like you to respond to this passage from Mark."

[Mark 1:14-15 NKJV] 14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

[Matthew 4:12-17 NKJV] 12 Now when Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, He departed to Galilee. 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, [By] the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned." 17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

[Luke 4:14-15 NKJV] 14 Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out through all the surrounding region. 15 And He taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all.

I think it means:
  • Jesus went to Galilee
  • Jesus warned people to "Repent" (Just as John the Baptist had).
  • Jesus warned people that "the kingdom of God is at hand" (Just as John the Baptist had).
  • This was the "good news" (gospel) mentioned in Mark 1:15
  • Jesus cannot have started his ministry asking people to believe the "Gospel" that "Jesus is God and he has died for their sins and the Father raised him from the dead; now that he has ascended into heaven, those who confess Jesus is Lord and believe God raised him from the dead will be saved and are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing their inheritance" ... so the call to believe the "good news" must be some good news different from the good news that we know today.

Having taken care of that, here are some places where you can learn what sola Fide really means:

GotQuestions

J.I.Packer

compellingTruth
LutheranReformation
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this reminds me of when I speak to Jehovah witnesses and they just want to refer you to their magazines / literature and website.
 
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