Trail of Blood

[rlvaughn]

Many make ToB into something it isn't and has never been. ToB is a compilation of notes and the charts from Carroll's lectures he gave in various churches. It is not a comprehensive work.

You make a very good point. The booklet is a compilation of lectures that Carroll gave on church history. Carroll died in 1931 before the book was produced, but J. W. Porter brought it out after his death. Further, even the full title denies that Carroll thought that John the Baptist started the church -- The Trail of Blood, Following the Christians Down through the Centuries. The History of Baptist Churches from the Time of Christ, Their Founder, to the Present Day. I further believe there is merit in remembering that faithful Christians (whether Baptist or not) who simply tried to follow the principles of the Bible left a "trail of blood" created by their persecutors who held the power of state. Foxe's Book of Martyrs and van Braght's Martyr's Mirror demonstrate this in much greater detail.

I believe The Trail of Blood errs in identifying some groups as Baptist when they cannot be convincingly demonstrated as much. However, The Trail of Blood has become the "whipping boy" of those who deny the premise of Baptists (or baptistic churches) in all ages from the time of the New Testament. It is much easier to critique a little booklet of 50 or so pages than to take on critiquing Joseph Ivimey's 4-volume A History of the English Baptists, the almost 600-page Baptist History: From the Foundations of the Christian Church to the Close of the Eighteenth Century, by John Mockett Cramp, President of Acadia College, Wolfville, Nova Scotia, or the two-volume A History of the Baptists, by John Tyler Christian, Professor of Church History at the Baptist Bible Institute, New Orleans, Louisiana (later renamed the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary).

The position of Carroll is not specifically Landmark, as some believe, but has been held by any number of Baptists in various times and places, such as non-Landmarkers R. B. C. Howell and Charles Spurgeon.

We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther and Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel under ground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit (Volume 7, London: Passmore & Alabaster, 1861, page 225).

 

[Alan Gross]

Many make ToB into something it isn't and has never been. ToB is a compilation of notes and the charts from Carroll's lectures he gave in various churches. It is not a comprehensive work.

This is a partial, more comprehensive, look at The Trail of Blood, from my blog.

I'll post Br. Hisels' Baptist History Notebook, with links, throughout History.

The point must not be lost that The Lord's Churches are, also, varified by The Bible, along with their Perpetuaty.

8.5.0 Bibliography: The HISTORY of THE CHURCHES JESUS FOUNDED, as The GODHEAD BODILY.

8.5.1 The Baptist History Notebook by Berlin Hisel, Chapter 1: THE TRACING OF BAPTIST HISTORY (note the Baptist Index at the bottom of this page).

8.5.2a The Baptist History Notebook Chapter 2: JESUS ESTABLISHES HIS CHURCHES. Satan Establishes his Counterfeit “Church” by Changing Jesus’ Church Government.

8.5.2b The Baptist History Notebook by Berlin Hisel, Chapter 2: JESUS ESTABLISHES HIS CHURCHES. Satan Establishes his Counterfeit “Church Message” by Changing Jesus’ Churches’ Plan of Salvation.

8.5.2c i: ‘Infant Baptism’: The third great Anti-Christian error, introduced by Satan in FALSE RELIGIOUS ‘churches’ THAT SEPARATED FROM JESUS’ CHURCHES.

8.5.2c ii Replies on ‘Infant Baptism’, re: DISCUSSION on TWITTER: The third great Anti-Christian error, introduced by Satan in FALSE RELIGIOUS ‘churches’ THAT SEPARATED FROM JESUS’ CHURCHES.

8.5.2c iii “How is it that you do not understand?”; Mark 1:4 “Baptism of Repentance”? The Genitive of RELATION AND OBJECT.

8.5.2d INDULGENCES; The Synagogue & “Seat of Satan” begins & Proudly Allows you to ‘Purchase The Kingdom of Heaven.’

8.5.2e THE INQUISITION. Everyone who opposes The False Roman Catholic ‘church’ IS MURDERED.

8.5.2f BLACK PEOPLE Have NEVER HAD IT ROUGH, Compared to Those Who WON THEIR FREEDOM.

8.5.2g: “ADOLF HITLER was A PERFECT CATHOLIC”.

 

[Alan Gross]

Many make ToB into something it isn't and has never been. ToB is a compilation of notes and the charts from Carroll's lectures he gave in various churches. It is not a comprehensive work.

Br. Hisels' Baptist History Notebook, with links, throughout History.

The point must not be lost that The Lord's Churches are, also, varified by The Bible, along with their Perpetuity. mkl;kmn .

Audios, here: Trail of Blood – Persecution of the Truth (pt. 1 of 12) - Baptist Because

From Berlin Hisel, Baptist History Notebook.

Index
Chapter 1
Tracing of Baptist History 1
An Invisible War 2
What is Meant by Kingdom 2
O.T. Trail of Blood 3
N.T. Trail of Blood 4
Victims of this War 4



Chapter 2
Jesus Establishes His Church 7
Christ's Church Built 7
Identifying Doctrine 7
Church Government Changed 9
Big Preachers - Big Churches 10
Episcopal Corruptions in Government 12
Preacher Power Corruption 14
Salvation Changes, Baptismal Regeneration 15
Infant Baptism 17
Many Remain True 18



Chapter 3
Persecution by The Roman Empire 20
Reasons for the Persecution 20
Different Emperors 22
How True Churches Fared 22
Nero, 54-68 B.C. 23
Trajan, 98-117 B.C. 25
Septimus Severus 193-211 26
Decius Trajan, 249-251 28
Diocletian, 284-316 30
Terrible Days (Many Martyrs' Crowns) 33
Days of Strength (Strength through Adversity) 33



Chapter 4
The Montanists 35
A Word of Caution, (not all who are called Baptist
are Baptist) 35


False charges against them, (most of their history
written by their enemies) 35
Eusebius, Historical Renderings 36
Montanists, Origin and Beliefs 38
Other Historians' accounts:
D. Benedict 39
J. T. Christian 40
H. C. Vedder 41
T. Armitage 42
W. A. Jarrel 43
Final Notes on the Montanists 43

Chapter 5
The Novatianists 45
Novatian Rupture 46
Historical Renderings:
Kurtz 46
C. L. Gieseler 47
Origin of Novatianism 48
Historical Renderings:
Robert Robinson 48
J. M. Cramp 50
Their Doctrines 51
Their Persecutions 52
Historical Renderings:
W. M. Nevins 52
van Braght 53
C. H. Spurgeon 54



Chapter 6
Constantine The Great 55
Leo I and Boniface III 55
Flavius Valerius Constantinus, A.D. 306-337 56
His Early Life 57
His Supposed Conversion 57
Religion United to the State 59
Edict of Milan 60
Changes in the False Churches 63
Money from the State 63
Privileges and Immunities of Clergy 64


Unity Among all Churches 65
Constantino's Life 68
Constantine's Baptism 68
Conclusion 69

Chapter 7
The Donatists 71
Quote by J. M. Cramp 72
Identified with Novatians 73
The Church, Its Structure 73
Separation of Church and State 74
Baptism 75
Donatist Persecution 76
The Donatists on Persecution 79
Conclusion 79



Chapter 8
Paterins, Puritans, Cathari 81
Paterins, (Patarenes) 81
Etymology of the Name 84
Paterines were Baptist 85
Puritans 86
Cathari 86
Name Widely Applied 87
The Catharist Doctrine 88
The Cathari were Baptists 89



Chapter 9
The Paulicians 91
Photius (witness of) 91
Siculus (witness of) 92
Origin, Doctrine, Persecution 93
Paulicians were Baptists 97
Persecuted 98



Chapter 10
Development in the Hierarchy, (Roman Catholic)100
The Sign of the Cross 100
Wax Candles 101
Mother of God 102


Purgatory 103
Origin of Purgatory 104

Chapter 11
Further Development in the Hierarchy,
(Roman Catholic) 106
List of Heresies (45 Listed) 106
Extreme Unction 109
Baptism of Bells 109
Transubstantiation 110
A Roman Miracle? 110
Catholic Church Councils Listed 112
Roman Catholic & Greek Orthodox 114



Chapter 12
Petrobrusians 116
Peter de Bruys 116
Their Doctrine 117
Augustus Neander, (Quoted) 117
Peter de Bruys was a Baptist 118
Information Source 119
Persecution 120



Chapter 13
The Henricians 121
Description of Henry 121
Henry in Mans 122
St. Bernard's Account of Henry's Influence 123
Henry was a Baptist 124
Historians say Henricians were Baptists 126
Persecution 126



Chapter 14
The Arnoldists 128
Orchard's Sketch of Arnold of Brescia 128
Was Arnold a Baptist? 130
Persecuted, Arnold's Martyrdom and Doctrine 131



Chapter 15
The Waldenses 134
Their Name 134

 

[Alan Gross]

This is a partial, more comprehensive, look at The Trail of Blood, from my blog.

I'll post Br. Hisels' Baptist History Notebook, with links, throughout History.

The point must not be lost that The Lord's Churches are, also, varified by The Bible, along with their Perpetuity. mkl;kmn .

Audios, here: Trail of Blood – Persecution of the Truth (pt. 1 of 12) - Baptist Because

From Berlin Hisel, Baptist History Notebook.

Their Antiquity 134
Historical Testimony 136
Waldenses by Various Names 137
Another Word on their Origin 138
Conclusion 140

Chapter 16
The Waldenses Continued 142
Waldenses Not Protestants 142
Their View on "Antichrist" 143
A Confession of Their Faith, (14 Articles) 144
What the Historians Say 148



Chapter 17
The Waldenses Concluded 150
Milton's Poem 150
Loss of Houses and Goods 151
Everywhere Persecuted 151
Persecuted by the Crusaders 152



Chapter 18
The Albigenses 157
Origin 157
Their Doctrine 157
Their Persecutions 160
A Bright Light in Dark Times 162



Chapter 19
The Ana-Baptists 166
Mosheim's Account 166
Depths of Their Antiquity 168
Ana-Baptist Ancestors 169
Waldenses were Ana-Baptists 170
Ana-Baptist Beliefs 171



Chapter 20
The Bogomils 173
Their Locations 173
Agreed with the Cathari 174



Antiquity of the Bogomils 175
Charges Against Them 176
Quote from J. T. Christian 177
Their Persecution 178

Chapter 21
The Lollards 179
Origin of the Lollards 179
Walter Lollard 180
Spurgeon in Connection with the Lollards 181
Their Doctrines 183
Their Persecutions 184



Chapter 22
The Bohemian & Moravian Brethren 188
Description of the Land 188
The Gospel in Bohemia 188
Peter Waldo 189
Called "Waldensians" 190
John Huss 190
Robert Robinson 192
Two Classes of Brethren 192
Their Persecution 192



Chapter 23
The Picards & Beghards 195
Picards or Pickard 195
Bohemia 196
Maximillian II 196
Doctrine of the Picards 196
The Beghards 198
The Name 199
Conclusion 199



Chapter 24
Ana-Baptists and the Reformation 201
God's Overruling Providence 202
The Good Doesn't Last 202
Illustrations of Reform Doctrine 203
Ana-Baptist Doctrine, Its Antiquity 204



Church Truth 205
Conclusion 206

Chapter 25
Ana-Baptists and the Reformation Continued 209
Christianity not a Culture 209
Constantine 210
The Reformation Continues 210
Same Problems 210
Religious Force 211
Luther's Choice 212
Church Requirements 212
Salvation by Faith Alone 213
Non-Public Worship 214



Chapter 26
Ana-Baptist and the Reformation Concluded 216
The Peace between Catholics and Reformers 216
The Peace of Augsburg (1555) 216
The Peace of Westphalia (1648) 217
Lutheran Persecution 217
Luther, A Persecutor 218
Death Warrants 219
John Calvin, A Persecutor 220
The Reformers all Alike 221
Conclusion 222



Chapter 27
The Ana-Baptists of Munster 223
W. A. Jarrel, Quote of their Diversity 223
The Munster Disorders 224
Common Sense, (not Ana-Baptist of the Ordinary
Sort) 226
Ana-Baptists Denial 226
Martyr's Testimony, (Condemnation of the Acts
Committed at Munster) 227
Non-Baptist Vindication 228
Conclusion 229



Chapter 28
The Welsh Baptists 231
The Gospel of Wales 231
Concerning Paul 231
Claudia, (Princess of Wales, Convert of Paul?)232
Baptists Alone 233
Were Ancient World Christians Baptist? 235
David Benedict's Quote concerning 236
Conclusion 237


Bibliography 239


Waldensian Confessions of Faith
Confession of 1120 247



[/QUOTE]

 

[canadyjd]

.....Jesus's disciples also started baptizing.

On that latter subject, I would be curious to know, from those to whom it applies, whether the baptisms performed by the disciples of Jesus (John 3:22; John 4:1-2) before Pentecost were or were not "Christian baptism.".....

That is a great question. Let’s look at it, though I reserve the right to meditate on the issue to further clarify my belief.

Christian baptism symbolizes the believers own death, burial and resurrection to a new person (life) in Christ.

Scripture seems clear that the disciples of Jesus didn’t understand His ministry, especially His death on the cross until after His resurrection.

So, prior to the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus, it seems likely to me the baptism ministry of the disciples of Jesus were a transitional ministry that would be similar to John’s baptism in that it pointed to a time when forgiveness of sins would come by faith in the Messiah instead of sacrifices in the temple.

Strictly speaking then, it wouldn’t be what we consider Christian baptism because it didn’t symbolize the believers death, burial and resurrection into a new life in Christ.

peace to you

 

[rlvaughn]

That is a great question. Let’s look at it, though I reserve the right to meditate on the issue to further clarify my belief.

No problem. I don't think I have ever heard anyone address this (at least from this point of view). Thank you for doing so. I think your definition of Christian baptism leaves little room for a conclusion other than the one you present.

 

[canadyjd]

No problem. I don't think I have ever heard anyone address this (at least from this point of view). Thank you for doing so. I think your definition of Christian baptism leaves little room for a conclusion other than the one you present.

This is the first time I’ve ever heard the question asked. I’m going to do a little research to see if folks who spend a lot of time thinking deep thoughts have addressed it. I’d be surprised if no one else has brought it up. Thanks for the question

peace to you

 

[37818]

Christian baptism symbolizes the believers own death, burial and resurrection to a new person (life) in Christ.

Mavbe. It is immersion into Christ's death and burial, ". , . Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. . . ." Romans 6:3-4. It represents our death burial and our new life in Christ. Compare 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.

 

[Jerome]

John baptized his disciples, and John’s disciples followed Christ. To me it seems difficult to reject this as the scriptural conclusion of the matter.

An apostle to replace Judas was chosen from those who had been with them from the time of John’s baptism. Acts 1:21-23

The phrase “baptism of John” (βάπτισμα Ἰωάννου) is never used to refer only to the baptism of Jesus by John, but to the baptizing that John did (Matthew 21:25; Mark 11:30; Luke 7:29; Luke 20:4; Acts 18:25).

Also earlier in Acts 1 Jesus had told them: v. 5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

Calvin's Commentary:

"And that is frivolous which some gather out of this place most commonly, namely, that the baptism of John and the baptism of Christ were diverse"

"here may a question be moved, why he doth rather name John here than any other....It is manifest enough that John did profess himself to be the minister of the outward sign, namely, of water, and that Christ was the author of the spiritual baptism"

"Because the apostles did so much esteem of John, (Jn 3:30) it might have been that thereby the glory of Christ might have been obscured. Therefore, Christ, to the end he might reclaim them to himself, telleth them that John did only minister unto them the external baptism; notwithstanding, He confirmeth them also"

"So must we, in like manner, think that we are not in vain baptized with water by men, because Christ, who commanded the same to be done, will fulfill his office, and baptize us with the Spirit."

 

[rlvaughn]

I have created a new thread related to the subject of John's baptism. Some of you might be interested.
History of the Interpretation of Acts 19:4-5

 

[rlvaughn]

This is the first time I’ve ever heard the question asked. I’m going to do a little research to see if folks who spend a lot of time thinking deep thoughts have addressed it. I’d be surprised if no one else has brought it up. Thanks for the question

peace to you

Here is someone who addressed it in some detail, John W. McGarvey in his commentary on Acts. He was a leader in the Restoration movement (A. Campbell), and published this work circa 1863, I think. Everyone below is written by him.
Their reply, that they were immersed into John's immersion, relieved the case of all obscurity, and Paul then understood it perfectly. He explained, that John's immersion was one of repentance, to be followed by faith in the Messiah when he should come. Those immersed by him believed that the Messiah was coming; but they did not, until after their immersion, believe that Jesus was the Messiah, nor did they have a promise of the Holy Spirit. They were not, therefore, immersed into the name of Jesus or that of the Holy Spirit. This is further evident from the fact that Paul commanded these twelve to be "immersed into the name of the Lord Jesus," which the authority of the commission requires us to understand as equivalent to the expression, "into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." These points of defect, however, were not peculiar to the immersion of the twelve, but attached also to that of the twelve apostles, the hundred and twenty disciples, and the five hundred who saw Jesus together in Galilee after the resurrection, [1 Corinthians 15:6.] none of whom were reimmersed. What, then, led to the immersion of these parties? If their immersion had taken place, like that of all the others just named, while John's immersion was still an existing institution, no reason could be given for their reimmersion. This, then, forces us to the conclusion that they had been immersed with John's immersion after it had ceased to be administered by divine authority. Apollos had been recently preaching this obsolete immersion in Ephesus, and these persons may have been immersed by him. If so, they submitted to an institution which had been abrogated more than twenty years, and this was the defect that led to their reimmersion. The general conclusion, from all the premises, is this: that persons who were immersed with John's immersion, while it was in lawful existence, were received into the Church of Christ without reimmersion. But persons who were thus immersed, after the introduction of apostolic immersion, were reimmersed. The reason why Apollos was not reimmersed as well as the twelve, was, doubtless, because, like the apostles and the other original disciples, he was immersed during the ministry of John.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Alan, I believe I wasn't clear. I hold to the Spiritual Kinship Theory of Baptist History.