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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, Oct 19, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here a Calvinist reads Calvinism into scripture and then claims the truth has been refuted. Opened her heart simply means Paul presented God's word in a way that she understand and then she responded by placing her faith in God.

    Next, of course God's revelation through written words, witnesses as in this case, or other media comes before our response to that revelation.

    And of course, the "Believer's water Baptism" is supposed to come after our Spiritual Baptism into Christ.
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
    MB
     
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What does1 Corinthians 1:21 teach us about when a human gets faith? Please explain the verse.

    For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

    Also, please explain how Hebrews 11tells us when a human gets faith.

    Hebrews 11:1-40

    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore. These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them. By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies. And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

    Barry, I would love for you to explain these verses and show us when faith is established within a human.
     
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Barry, many people hear the word of God. Does every person who hears the word of God therefore have faith?

    How does faith differ from trust? Do you have a difference between the two or are they synonymous?

    When you say "our own faith", what does that mean to you? I read that and I think "Faith is of my own will, apart from God." Please clarify what you mean by "our own faith."
     
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  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Both are great verses. From these two verses do you see faith preceding redemption or following redemption?
     
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    First . What translation is that lol ?
     
  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    We don't ' get faith ' . A gift might be given after regeneration a certain ' measure OF faith ' . And Jesus s Faith is another matter . Your confused and were trying to wake you out of it . Its hard work .I wish there was a verse where we can pour cold water on calvinists or shake them a little to try snap them out of their indoctrination.
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    When you get on a plane don't you have faith/ trust that the pilot hasn't had too much to drink before flying ? You don't check his breath before and ask for his credentials do you ? this is trust
    Why do we need a different kind of trust to believe Gods revelation , and trust in Jesus death, burial and resurrection for our sins according to the Scriptures?
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Deflection. I use the ESV. Get used to it.
    Now, go and interpret the verses in relation to faith please.
     
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  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Interpret your scripture for us, Barry. Does God not tell us when faith is given to humans?
     
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  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    We trust a pilot because we have seen planes fly and watched movies. That's not faith.

    What does God say about faith?

    Hebrews 11:1
    Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
     
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  12. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Ahh the Calvinist , leaning translation .
     
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  13. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    An exclamation mark is not a substitute for a Bible verse.
     
  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    We are not given faith in order to believe the Gospel .
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    There is no redemption with out believing in Christ first. The gospel brings more faith and Christ saves us after justification.
    MB
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Scripture please.
     
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  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Scripture please.
     
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  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That, to me, is a flat out denial of the gospel of Christ being the power of God, Romans 1:16, "the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ." 1 Corinthians 1:18, "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
     
  20. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Its too obvious, it's silly . God is pleased to to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)
     
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